On 3, there was not a redemption fee. I think there was a fee to switch banks, but that fee could be avoided by liquidating the asset and then moving the money, which is how I would expect to exit my golden visa.
I feel pretty confident because ATLANTICO was 10 basis points and Bison was a flat €35. It was a big part of my overall fee analysis.
Is there an alternative bank?
Totally agree with the sentiments @kay @jb4422 @misterferguson - i feel it is a bit of a breach of trust and taking advantage of our constraints.
Im curious if other folks have reached out / heard back?
Whether or not there is an alternative bank is almost beside the point. Of course there are other banks, though most of them have been complained about here already, so you’re choosing between bad choices for the most part. But how are you going to manage to get two Portuguese entities to effect a complicated change such as this within 30 days? I’m not going to say it’s impossible but you have to admit it’s unlikely. And then is it going to cause issues with AIMA farther down the road?
I don’t personally bank with Bison, but perhaps I should make an inquiry as a potential interested party. I’m more following because one major player, in a game with few, getting away with behaving badly is more likely a sign of what will be coming for the rest of us. I think I just had new T&Cs come out from my bank that I better get to reading, even though I can’t really do anything about it. I was told the changes were minor, so we shall see.
My secondary plan was to hold IMGA for something more flexible when the closed end fund terms come to an end, but if everyone starts with liquidation fees that starts to hurt.
Oh, and BTW, more info about Bison Bank from their website - they are owned by a company based in China:
The Bank is wholly owned by the Hong Kong based Bison Capital Holding Company Limited, through Bison Capital Financial Holdings (Hong Kong) Limited, a financial holding company registered in Hong Kong.
I don’t see why this is relevant
Well, I guess erroneously I assumed that it was a Portuguese Bank owned and run by Portuguese-based individuals. I personally don’t like the fact that it is owned by a Chinese company.
In any case, I heard back from the Bison Bank rep and he said this:
“I would like to confirm that the fee mentioned will not be applied to your situation.”
I wrote back again and asked for this in writing and he responded with:
"I would like to clarify that the decision not to apply the fee to your case is a commercial one. You are already our Client on a long term relations with the Bank.
As the person responsible for the bank’s business, I confirm that you may always use my email as written proof of this decision. In any case, I will be here to assist you when you reach the end of your investment period."
Interesting observation, but it’s kinda moot point because the same is true for many others and nobody cares.
For example, how many of the 40 million clients of The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation (aka HSBC) may not like that it is a Chinese company?
Not to belabor the statement I made (I was unaware it would strike a chord) but…
HSBC is a huge company - one of the largest banking and financial services institutions in the world - serving millions of customers (and lots that aren’t very happy, according to their reviews).
I was under the assumption that Bison Bank was a small, local bank, but it turns out it is just small but not local. That doesn’t sit well with me, but there’s nothing I can really do about that now.
I thought the 0.5% fee was an annual fee for the bank to act as the custodian. If my assumption is correct, then the fee is charged once a year. By early withdrawal, are we talking about withdrawal before that one year is up? Do you mean there is no pro-rating of the fee?
HSBC is a British bank headquartered (legally) in London, UK. For this reason, I wouldn’t call them a “Chinese” company even though they have many clients in China and operate profitably in China and its territories (e.g. Hong Kong).
Of course you’re going to get push back on blatant xenophobia/bigotry. Especially on a forum for immigrants who are often themselves the target of bigotry!
I would note that their own material makes it clear that their owners are based in Hong Kong, it’s right there on the “About Us” page, and it’s never not been.
After discussing with them, it seems clear to me they mean for the fee to apply to new investments and new clients and not to existing investments. That might be unpleasant for new clients of course, and no one likes to see costs go up. However, it means they aren’t breaching any pre-existing agreements, implied or real - which is the right thing to do - and I’d call this more of a communications problem on their part than anything.
(Whether or not it’s right or fair to charge that fee go-forward is a matter of opinion and what the market will bear. All I will note is that banking in the rest of the world is expensive, and dealing with wealth management banks is expensive; I pay marginally less elsewhere but this isn’t ridiculously out of line for offshore from my experience. It just seems ridiculous from the American point of view - but I have come to learn from decades of experience that from a financial services point of view, Americans are spoiled.)
That said, if you are a Bison customer, I’d get it in writing just for safety’s sake.
