OK, so what are the options still on the table in Europe?
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Just rotten fruit from a Portuguese-y tree.
ā¦and still better than no option at all!
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Intriguing ā¦ ābuyback promisesā in the cutoff headline:
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Hi! we are considering Holborn as well. Could you please share your experience with me?
I just saw this. Try the DM / messaging here, it triggers emails for those like me who elect that, youāll get quicker response. I DMād you based on another post you made before I read this.
I am considering the Holborn Assets investment. Could you DM me any info?
I am also considering the Holborn Assets investment in Royal Obidos, did you receive any feedback from this question?
Again, as on the other same topic post, are folks reading the DMs they request and the postingsā details within these threads, such as the linked article in #23 here?
Or this via search?
Hi 
I am also looking into Holborn as an option. Would love hear about your experience with them. Any information would be really appreciated! Thanks.
Summer, see DM.
Jeff B, with all due respect to your many high level contributions to this forum, the comments you contributed in this discussion particularly in post 15 are both irrelevant and out of date. Real estate, or buildings with beds, deals no longer qualify and correspondingly these newfangled variants on that theme are reportedly coming under scrutiny in this new era after Oct 23, long since you invested. Guaranteed buyback deals are also written up in the press as suspect, linked above. Impressions formed during a different era and about a different deal no longer apply and tell nothing about the suitability of the current scheme pushed by Holborn. Others of us have more current insight, even legal analysis, of todayās offerings.
I state as much to encourage newcomers to read carefully other contributorsā statements here, particularly the linked article and insight by Milo in #3 above, for more relevant commentary about this topic. Also, read between the lines! DM to Milo or me or others as needed, perhaps, too.
I have no personal interest in Holborn, but using DM for general information defeats the purpose of the forum. First of all, nobody else gets to benefit from your wisdom, and secondly, nobody can correct you if youāre wrong about some detail.
Or if you forgive the bluntness, claiming that the publicly-provided information (from @jb4422) is obsolete without specifying how, that you have āmore current insight, even legal analysisā, and asking to DM makes you look suspicious.
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- Iām going to post most of the IMGW article linked above, hopefully giving some clarity to the risk involved:
An IMGW News Report
Portugal has initiated an investigation into the market activities of several venture capital funds linked to the Golden Visa programme, following complaints from local lawyers. These complaints highlighted concerns raised by applicants from North Asia, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East, particularly regarding certain funds that have been offering a āguaranteed buyback agreement.ā
The āguaranteed buyback agreementā allows Golden Visa applicants to reclaim the full amount of their invested capital upon the maturity of the fund, alongside the promise of obtaining permanent residency. This contractual arrangement resembles a common practice in real estate, where sellers agree to repurchase properties at a predetermined price within a specified timeframe.
However, the legality of such buyback agreements within the context of investment funds remains uncertain. Key issues under scrutiny include the regulatory framework governing these funds and the legitimacy of third parties promoting such agreements.
This investigation comes a year after significant amendments to the Golden Visa programme. In October 2023, President Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa approved the āMore Housingā bill, which introduced changes aimed at addressing Portugalās housing crisis. These reforms eliminated the popular real estate investment option from the residency scheme but allowed other investment avenues to remain available.
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- I have no interest in whatever investment choices folks make, Iām merely a GV intender myselfābut I wish to avoid a catastrophic outcome myself, and to help others avoid the same, by making the wrong investment choices.
Iāll repeat what Milo posted in #3 above for future readers who fail to scroll to the start of this thread:
Jun 2024
So after talking to several law firms and other GV applicants, I can provide what Iāve learned in case anyone in the future finds this thread:
Firstly, after researching this, I have personally decided to move forward with a lawyer instead of a financial advisor as I feel their incentives align in a way that feels comfortable for me. I will also go with an established investment fund that clearly meets the governmentās new criteria (60% Portuguese, avoiding real estate).
So after the government changed the law in Oct 2023 to stop real estate investing as a mechanism for the Portuguese Golden Visa, some hospitality funds with guaranteed buybacks sprung up. Since these are so young, I couldnāt find any evidence that they would successfully pass the bar to qualify for the type of investment required by the government. The lawyers I spoke to thought that the spirit of these investments were in opposition to the Oct 2023 law and recommended that I avoid them. They said that at the point that an immigration office might deny an application because of an unsatisfactory investment, my money could already be locked up in an investment with a 5+ year hold.
Some types of funds might not necessarily have real collateral. So just be sure to read contracts well.
Also consider researching comps against the value of the type of property being pitched.
Best of luck!
PS - Apparently Portugal has very strict defamation laws. This made finding unbiased reviews of lawyers very challenging. And it makes talking about this sort of thing delicate.
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- Jeff B. researched a prior investment opportunity in real estate that Holborn represented (itās merely a sales agent in this case, not exactly the projectās promoter in the manner of a developer like Mercan). Jeff Bās investment opportunity existed before the 2023 law change that prohibits direct or indirect real estate investments from qualifying for GV. Whatever his impressions of that Excellium deal, they are no longer relevant. That deal is not now on offer or the subject of the current Holborn discussion here in this or other threads since the law changed. I stated as much above, if you re-read my perhaps too cryptic comments. I assumed reader familiarity with the legal framework changes that make irrelevant all assessments of former real estate GV investment offers.
Pursuing a ābuildings with bedsā investment scheme at this time may pose undue risks, particularly if one understands from certain insiders that such schemes possibly have PT authoritiesā attentions (I suggest now that the curious among you watch the late 2024 PelaTerra sales pitch presentation hosted here by NG, email to get that link from our NG founder, as it contains interesting information about the PT regulatory climate and mentions buildings with beds).
Jeff B is a longstanding, high-level contributor, but that does not mean his insights from 4+ years ago apply to an entirely different deal within a new regulatory environment for GV. Itās legitimate for me to respectfully point out as much for the benefit of future readers who might consider conducting their own research as ultimately did our friend Milo, the originator of this thread, who generously shared some of his findings here. - Lastly, I am aware that defamation and libel laws vary around the world. My willingness to talk via phone about this matter differs from my willingness to write about it here. Take or leave what I say. I am in no position to gain either way. I simply wish for all to avoid being misled or to fail in their ultimate GV goal. Like Milo apparently did, I requested and fully read the Holborn deal documents prior to making my decision and my background makes me well suited to understand them. Thus, perhaps I know more about the deal that I reviewed than do some other participants here, and I may be able to address some questions about it. The main point is that many key, determinate details already appear here, particularly if one reads this and comparable posts quite carefully. NB: Other dispositive factors may exist only within the deal documents themselves, as some already discovered.
Iāll close by adding what I advise folks via DM or if we speak: always, ALWAYS, get your own INDEPENDENT legal counsel (as did Milo) to review any private deal documents (such as Obidos, etc.) that youāre considering in the specific light of the GV lawsāmeaning a PT immigration specialist; NEVER rely merely upon the selling agent, the promoter, or a lawyer that they choose for youāor even me.
If my hesitation to add more specific details to this thread makes me look suspect rather than cautious to those who may hold more cynical views, so be it.
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Thanks for filling in the details, @mustmove! Just to be clear, I boldfaced ālookā in āmakes you look suspiciousā for a very specific reason, because it wasnāt an accusation.
No offense taken, I understood your meaning. Your post inspired me to add more detail, at least to the extent I felt comfortable. Those who wish to discuss more details may feel free to DM me.
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What open ended equity fund option did you go with? Iām in VC and looking at a lot of VC and PE options (Biovance, Iberis) and some low risk ag plays (eg Pela Terra) but if thereās a way to get even lower risk exposure that would be ideal. Thanks!
BPI Portugal, which is basically a PSI20 tracker