The worst things in GV are following in the order from worst to less bad:
Change of conditions for people who are already in the program. Does not matter if the conversion into D2 will keep 7/14 day stay. It is not acceptable in any civilized country. The rule is if somebody entered the program, it is done. The government has made promises in order to get the investment, it should fulfill it. The government took ridiculously high fees, at least deliver what you promised. People have paid all those fees hoping to get citizenship, now they are one year of half a year to that goal, and you change the rules for them. I am not mentioning that the process for citizenship takes now mor than 2 years, so an average ARI investors will have 1 original GV and 4 renewals. Nice amount of money, no? Why not immune them from the changes? Stop the program completely, I do not care, but keep it for the past investments. But no, lawyers lobbying not to stop it, they want new clients, and I have not heard they were talking much about old ones and promises to them. I am reading this last article, and surprise-surprise, lawyers are “satisfied” with the new variant of the law with that stupid D2 conversion, that nobody even knows how it will work.
Delays in renewals. Guys, you charge fee that covers monthly payment of a 2-3 dedicated persons. Apparently one ARI guy does not requires 1 month of full time job. Why delays for months and even years, while normal permits are renewed automatically. Nonsense! It is good that they allow us to renew automatically this year, but looks like it will end pretty soon.
It would be rather foolish of the government to get rid of automatic renewal, as that would make them spend more of the fees on government employees to do the work. Far easier to renew automatically and keep all the cash!
Automatic renewal means same conditions, same type of visa, everything. New law says conversion to D2 with the analysis of investment if it is suitable. Does not sound like automatic renewal to me. And because the rules are not clear, they may stop any renewals at all until new rules are elaborated. Typical reaction in Portugal during uncertainty - stop doing anything.
So my base scenario is that they stop renewals just after the law becomes in force and start working on the framework for those conversions. It will take time - 6 months or longer. Then the GV community starts complaining more and more loudly, and they will start conversions to special D2 with the same conditions as GV and same high fees, but most likely we will have to apply via SEF again.
The only hope is that president will not ratify the law until new rules are discussed and created
I can’t predict the future, but I suspect you are right that if the law goes as currently written, both pending applications and renewals that in volve real estate will be paused for an indeterminate period of time because the D2 conversion process in its current form is impossible to implement.
The D2 conversion language is only there because there wasn’t going to be a GV any longer, right? So now that there will be a GV going forward (just not involving real estate), that D2 conversion is not even needed. Just scrap that unnecessary language and state that pending and renewals prior to the law change get treated like the new GV.
It’s frustrating like watching a train wreck about to happen in slow-motion. And I’m on the train!!
Yes, you are right, but they forgot to scrap this D2 language and passed the law through Parliament as it is. So it just sits and waits the approval from the president. I am not well aware of Portuguese lawmaking processes, and therefore have no idea if further changes could be made. Parliament approved with overwhelming majority and could easily override the president’s veto if he decides to do it. As I know he is not agree with all wording, but I am not sure he will do anything taking the majority in Parliament into account
What do you mean “treat renewals as new GV”? They have eliminated several investment options at all. So what people who got into program 3 years ago and now need to renew should do? Sell their investment and do a new one?
Yeah, I wasn’t clear on what I meant by “treat renewals as new GV,” but I think you and I are in agreement on what should happen. What I mean is just treat pending and renewals as they were under the law at the time the investment was made, and it’s OK to still call them GV because such a thing still exists. There is no reason to convert them to D2.
I’m invested in commercial real estate, and it is anyone’s guess how that would be interpreted under the language as currently drafted.
Like you, I hope that someone / anyone, including possibly the President, will take action so that the language of the law is fixed to preserve our status.
Possibly a futile effort, but I’m going to contact the Portuguese Consulate again next week. They were very nice and understanding the last time I contacted them about this legislation, and it will make me feel like I’m doing something positive.
I suspect that there is simply something about the way that Portuguese law works that none of us understand that means it has to be done this way, however non-sensical it might seem to us as outsiders. Otherwise the lawyers would still be squawking. Having the existing permit holders possibly lose their permits really isn’t in their interest - each one who loses their permit is a potential ongoing revenue stream gone. (How many people go on to use the firm that did their ARI for their other legal needs? How many will do so if they lose their permit?) Losing the real estate path wasn’t a real loss for the lawyers because they can just guide them into another investment. Losing the renewal means losing existing clients, which is always far worse.
I think you are all panicking too much about the D2 conversion. They’ve repeatedly said no retroactivity. The D2 is a hangover from when they were abolishing the Programme. Now they are not. I think it exceptionally likely that those with investments no longer accepted for new applications will continue to be processed and renewed for GVs not D2. Just like has been the case for those who made a 350k investment in a fund, or bought a residential property in Lisbon, following earlier changes.
I missed my application in Dec’21 because my lawyer was on vacation and never saw the shutdown coming, had to wait till Aug’22 to apply and I expect I need another year to wait till my PRE-APPROVAL alone.
I would tend to agree. People who applied later than some others but had Biometrics in Faro, Porto and Coimbara have already got their cards. However those in Lisbon have not and, may not get theirs till after the law changes. Legally how can SEF justify treating the applicants differently. One who already have their cards as normal GV and the others still waiting at Lisbon office as D2. Even though they may have applied for the GV at the same time or earlier.
That in itself would be cause for legal action as the ones who had their biometrics in Lisbon are being treated differently. I would think as per law they should be treated equally and can’t be pushed into D2 just because of the delays in Lisbon.
The other related issue is that SEF does have targeted timescales for processing applications ( hence the successful court cases), had SEF hit those targets many applicants would never be subject to these new rules - another grounds for action if the impact is severely negative
Oh, every SEF has its own workload. Most of immigrants learned hard lesson that Lisbon is the worst on timing for anything. GV approvals. Renewals. Driving license exchange. If your lawyer recommended you to apply in Lisbon, I would question this firm. Well, I have applied first in Lisbon too, and it took a year, but later did renewals in other cities. Portugal is not large and my lawyer charges the costs but drives to other city where it is much faster.
I cannot speak for others, but when I did my biometrics in Lisbon, the wait was around 6 months, that 6 months ballooned into 11.5 months in the timeframe since — probably because the entire Lisbon office is focused on processing the GVs preapprovals from December 2021.
I get that. But that wasn’t the reason of my post. My reasoning was about people applying at the same time for GV and some getting pushed towards D2 (due to the new laws) and some being processed as normal GV just because they applied to a less busy town/city. The GV law is countrywide and should be honored as such.
The EU has been busy harassing Carribean countries with CBI programs. There is some information that can be gleaned from this that might influence current or future RBI programs in the EU. This is not specific to any country but applies to anywhere that might have favorable CBI or RBI programs.
One overarching theme of EU policy is to “protect the sanctity” of citizenship. In other words, this stipulation requires that both the CBI countries themselves and the investors consider citizenship holy or sacred.
Moreover, the EU’s new stipulations seek to “shift the focus from simply purchasing a global mobility advantage to a more comprehensive commitment to the host country” and that “applicants are not solely driven by the convenience of global travel but also value and respect the responsibilities and privileges that come with the citizenship," which would serve to “maintain the integrity of citizenship as a deep and meaningful connection to a nation.” Citation: imidaily
This is not only informative, but also instructive. I am not here to lecture anyone, but I cringe anytime I see someone write “I just want citizenship so I can move to X” or “I don’t ever want to live in country X.” Under these aforementioned policy guidelines, you would be banned and shown the door. I understand the point of the policies, but as the original author noted, the EU is requiring from the applicants something that the host country doesn’t even itself require.
Ironically, I think the best thing the EU could do to undercut Caribbean CBI programs is … offer a 10 year multiple entry Schengen visa similar to the US 10 year tourist visa. If people with money had that option rather than current Schengen visa mess, I think few would spring for $200k Caribbean passports.
Rich people are buying these passports because the EU is so prejudiced against their home countries that paying the money is worth the upgrade. Remove the prejudice and people will stop buying them! EDIT: and obviously the EU wants to vet people from those countries, but the EU could obviously vet better through their own 10 year Schengen visa process than relying on Caribbean countries to vet.
