Awaiting Pre-Approval (Stage 2)

[anon3da7ee8641fdda3e (3da7ee8641fdda3ef352)]

Yes, that’s true. But it’s already 2 weeks, if we consider the 3rd June date for one applicant and a month in generally when we were regularly getting news of pre-approvals from the members of this forum. So, really, what has gone wrong in the last 2 weeks? Any idea?

[edandmegan (Ed M)]

Thank you for the helpful insight. Do you mind sharing which lawyer you are working with (you can PM me if you prefer).

[PCERoman (Roman)]

Hello Ed,

The name of our lawyer is Maria Sofia Andrade. She is an independent attorney and generally responds to communications quickly, though she is much more expensive then what I gathered others have paid.

Cheers,

Roman

[edandmegan (Ed M)]

Thanks. Good to know.

[zoyasam (Zoya he)]

We had applied on 21th of December 2021, nothing yet! Just heard from our lawyers since Nov everything had stopped for GV applications! It is just so frustrating we bought a flat, it is vacant we gave the key to our agent and we haven’t heard anything from her for months! It is not right the way we get treated after investing soo much money and have put our hope and trust! I am more concerned for my husband he is more anxious and impatient!

[jpgoldenvisa (JP)]

True. This should be dealt with a class action lawsuit. I mean even third world countries do a better job when it comes to e-governance. We have so much money locked up in a country which simply ignores the investors.

[mishaisadog (Carolyn)]

The thing that gets me is everyone in the industry was aware that SEF stopped taking applications in November (not to mention the overall dysfunction) yet this investment product is still marketed! That sounds like fraud, or at least fraud adjacent to me. I haven’t invested, but paid “advisory” fees, then found out about this stoppage. It’s just seems so shady at this point.

The industry actors seem to play on our vulnerabilities, as our money would probably be better off elsewhere, but they know we are pursuing this for better opportunities for us or our families. Americans at least are often cited as having fears of political instability, gun violence, and high health care and education costs at home.

And it’s so one sided. That’s ridiculous you have not heard from your property manager in months!

[cd6bb2530c2233700f2a]

Haha. I mean your points have some merit but seriously? A lawsuit against the Portuguese government because they don’t act quickly enough to suit you? You might have better luck against the industry and lawyers but even then… Get back to me in 6 years when you get resolution from your lawsuit and let me know how it worked out. A better option is to cut your losses and move on to a locale that treats its immigrants better.

[cd6bb2530c2233700f2a]

@PCERoman

• What are the reasons for delays?
  The primary reason is still COVID-related backlog.

• When does the five-year clock start ticking?
  This might not yet have been enshrined into a law, but it has been understood and, according to her, can be argued if necessary, during application for residency/citizenship.

• When will biometric appointments resume?
  Since SEF is now under pressure to deal with the delays, it is expected that biometrics will resume in Q3 of this year.
  Furthermore, recognising the long nature of the process of securing appointments, the new scheme of temporary residency cards has been changed for the initial one good for two years, and the subsequent one for three years (instead of one year, two years, and two years).

Call me a cynic, but it seems your lawyer is merely trying to placate you. Are we really to believe that lawyers can just swat away these pesky laws and use reason and compassion in its place? It that is true, why are we dealing with any of these ridiculous requirements and delays still. And as for Covid remaining an excuse for everything, I find that also hard to believe. I was inside a SEF office not so long ago and I saw that it had very little impact.

[PCERoman (Roman)]

That is all the information I have. I am sure there are better ways to resolve these issues, but it is for Portugal to decide, not me.

[PCERoman (Roman)]

You might be right, and hence my advice is to “take it for what it is worth to you”. Yes, I can certainly join the chorus of pessimists and condemn myself to a miserable wait, or I can just accept the local peculiarities and roll with the punches. I am also frustrated with the slow pace, but I don’t want those feeling to overwhelm or cloud my judgement or alter my goals.

For what it is worth, I am moving there in October, regardless of whether or not my biometrics appointment will be scheduled by then. The rest will be resolved somehow and sometime in the future, and I am certain it will be resolved.

[portunhol]

Are you planning to live in Portugal? If so, you may seriously consider applying for the D7 instead. You can read on the forums here the various difficulties with living in Portugal without a valid residence card. The GV process is so backed up that even if eventually get your biometrics appt, you won’t see a residence card for maybe another 6 months. However, the whole D7 process is working and working quickly and you should expect to see that card on time.
Obviously, please do your own research before applying for the visa at the consulate, but for people who want to actually live in Portugal, its better in almost every way. If you are going in October, you have plenty of time to apply now. Consider contracting with a new attorney however. Fees for the D7 are much smaller than for the GV, and you should expect your current attorney to be conflicted in advising you to change paths.

Enjoy the move! It’s a great place to live and I hope you’ll have a great time.

[PCERoman (Roman)]

Thank you for your advice. I have considered the switch many times and well aware about many benefits including faster processing, lower fees, and ease of application. However, I am already so far along the process that it would be too difficult to switch over now. Besides, I do intend to live in Portugal, but not necessarily 183+ days per year. GV offers some more flexibility in terms of length of stay.

And yes, indeed it is a great place and I plan to enjoy my time there (not necessarily the move, though) - thank you for the encouragement!

[CTC (Rob S)]

@PCERoman

When does the five-year clock start ticking?
Originally it was when final approval was granted. However, the government has been pressured to change that practice and consider pre-approval date as the start of the five-year count. The group of immigration attorneys (mine including) made a case for the change due to unusually long delays unfairly caused by SEF’s inability to cope with the backlog of applications, appointments, etc. This might not yet have been enshrined into a law, but it has been understood and, according to her, can be argued if necessary, during application for residency/citizenship.

This is the second time in the past few days that we received notice that the 5 year clock starts from preapproval. I am starting to think there might be something to this.

See also this post: Awaiting Pre-Approval (Stage 2) - #294 by gavin4

[PCERoman (Roman)]

Let’s hope so. I will keep the forum updated as I learn more about the situation.

[live2learn]

I am not the one who is capable of concluding 100% on this matter. However, clock starts ticking after pre-approval will never happen. Why do I believe so ? The reason is that someone here in this forum was pre-approved 3 years ago and he is still waiting to complete his biometric. Half of my family were also pre-approved 2 years ago and also waiting for biometric. So if things keep going at baby turtle pace like this, even in 5 years we still cannot complete the 1st biometric. Therefore it is impossible to submit the citizenship application . Unless there is something officially announced via Sef’s website, all infos are just speculative…

[elle1 (ElleC)]

Regarding the possibility that the 5-year clock starts with the date of pre-approval -

@PCERoman

This might not yet have been enshrined into a law, but it has been understood and, according to her, can be argued if necessary, during application for residency/citizenship.

I do think this suggestion by your lawyer is very interesting and encouraging.

For my part if the wait for our biometrics appointment continues with no resolution, I will certainly consider going ahead and applying for citizenship 5 years from the date of our pre-approval!

I would get some further legal advice on this and possibly give it a go! In the mean time I think it’s worth fulfilling the visit requirements in any case. My plan was to make sure we all exceed the minimum one week per year wherever possible. Likewise to get cracking with the language lessons!

So this idea is a useful one to consider. I don’t think it hurts to try. And if one can show strong links with Portugal presumably you would be in an even better position. For those who have already purchased a property and especially if you are visiting frequently that seems like a strong link to me. Maybe harder if you went the investment funds route like I did, but visiting often and keeping the receipts might hopefully be sufficient.

If the citizenship application is unsuccessful first time round then we simply wait for 5 years from the eventual date of permit and apply again. I doubt we’d have been blacklisted simply for trying.

For those who have been pre-approved 2, 3 years ago and still waiting on biometrics, perhaps it’s an option to ensure you go ahead and fulfill the visit and language test requirements anyway, and then consider applying for citizenship 5 years from your pre-approval, assuming you are able to visit Portugal through some other visa or the country of your citizenship, or based on the pre-approval letter (which I thought I read somewhere this was possible - but check first).

[cd6bb2530c2233700f2a]

@elle1

Regarding the possibility that the 5-year clock starts with the date of pre-approval -

Just no. That’s not the way it works regardless of what a lawyer told someone.

[PCERoman (Roman)]

That’s what I intend to do. In the worst-case scenario, I will spend another year waiting for the right to apply. Would just give me a better chance to improve my Portuguese.

[sheshe (Sherry)]

@mishaisadog

The

Same situation here! Do you think we’d have a chance if retrieving that “advisory fee” if we decide to pull out?