I am hoping this is the right thread to share. My husband and I received our residency cards a few weeks ago after waiting almost 3 years. The next day we went to our local finanças to change our address to Portugal. We tried multiple times last year with no luck. We went to Lisbon last week to meet face to face with ADA legal about our NHR. They were able to get us our NHR in less than a week. Highly recommend them!!
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hi @aliray - if you donât mind sharing, what was the cost of doing this with ADA legal?
thank you!
And please could you tell us if ADA assisted you with the permit?
| ele0sf EO
July 25 |
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hi @aliray - if you donât mind sharing, what was the cost of doing this with ADA legal?
thank you!
Would also like to know cost of ADA Legal and if they assisted you with the permit? Thank you!
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Has anyone tried applying for NHR themselves using Bordrâs guide? I followed their guide to remove my fiscal representative and it worked as described.
Does anyone have what they believe to be reliable information on the tax benefits on the 2024 version of NHR?
Similarly, does anyone have a latest rumor on the new NHR package we may see from the new government? Associated story here for reference - https://www.sovereigngroup.com/news/news-and-[https://www.sovereigngroup.com/news/news-and-views/portugal-to-reintroduce-nhr-style-tax-breaks-for-skilled-foreigners/]
I have hopes that the new package will offer incentives to high wage earners, as well as a social contributions cap.
Thanks in advance.
I chatted to a tax advisor firm regarding applying for old (âtransitional regimeâ) NHR now vs waiting until moving and then applying for the new NHR. They advised waiting for regulation on the new NHR to be finalized which they said should happen soon.
They said that to apply for old NHR you should technically live in Portugal 180 days to become tax resident. They said that in practice Portugal is happy to let you become tax resident just on the basis of a lease and GV card, but if you do that to claim NHR starting 2024 and then move to PT in e.g. 2030 and start claiming NHR benefits on much higher income, they could go back and audit your 2024 claim, say there is no record of you living in PT for 180 days and retroactively revoke your NHR. They say this risk is probably low (hasnât happened to any of their clients yet) but could be higher if you file as non-resident for some years between 2024 and 2030.
I guess, one scenario where it might not make sense, is applying early if you donât actually move to PT, if the risk of it being retroactively revoked could cause significant financial loss.
honestly this is the most bizarre tax related scaremongering I have ever heard.
Forgive me for not commenting on the specific points they âadvisedâ you on, as they are beyond ridiculous.
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Forgive me if this was covered before, but i applied in 2023 and obviously dont have a a preapproval. Am i eligible to apply for old NHR scheme since i was in the process of moving (applied) ? I believe the deadline is 2024 end. Anyone has done something similar?
The answer is Yes, you can apply for NHR.
Tommi, one way to look at it is as scaremongering. Another way is to say it is a lawyer listing out all possible ramifications. Given that it is Portugal, itâs highly unlikely that anyone in the government will show the level of motivation required to do this, but itâs not impossible. For myself, I would prefer that my lawyer point out all these fringe cases, even if they are unlikely, so I can judge those risks for myself.
If they go back and audit and say you werenât in country for 180 days and use that as a basis for revoking NHRâŠthat same basis is enough to say youâre not a resident at all. Thus you couldnât be back-taxed because you arenât a resident.
Granted this can screw you going forward but at least in some cases can be self-defeating.
Itâs also situational, I think. Youâre working under the âIntentâ clause, and intent is a pretty vague thing.
A number of people are applying based on some random lease of an apartment and calling that âgood enoughâ. Show a 1 year lease, then drop it. Thatâs fairly easy to see through; itâs a sham you did to get in under the wire.
Now, say you actually buy a real apartment, your name on a deed. Fix it up, furnish it. Set up utilities. Buy a car or something. Actually be there for a bit. Now you are showing real intent to create a domicile.
Oops. You lost your remote job or your parents got sick or whatever. You have to move back. So you leave, and 2 months later file that you departed, and file a partial-year tax return. Maybe even you actually pay a little tax.
So are you a bona-fide tax resident, or not? You have demonstrable intent. That it didnât work out is beside the point.
This logic is used in practice by the New York State tax authorities, in reverse. The rule is that 184 days in NYC makes you a city resident and you get to pay another 4.2% income tax. Thereâs plenty of stories about people using GPS trackers and toll slips as proof of entry/exit to stay under the line. But they can get you under the intent clause too. Lots of people âmove awayâ to Florida to get out from NYS tax⊠without selling their NYC abode, hoping to use the 183-day clause. NYS comes after them on intent, making them show they left, and itâs a real fuzzy thing. But you can prove intent through demonstrable actions⊠if you make them.
A tax advisor firm I spoke to actually raised this risk, though more as a âweâve decided we donât believe you generallyâ. They suggested this latter approach as one that will work and stick, versus the more hand-wavey âget something to use as an address, anything will doâ; they would do that for me, but pointed at the risks thereof, which is exactly what I would want a competent tax lawyer to do.
(And no, they werenât pushing to sell me something; I already use the law firm for other purposes, and I already bought an apartment - itâs just not done yet. So itâs a matter of timing vs EOY and the related risks. My situation is⊠complicated⊠so I have to step very carefully.)
And the deadline is 2024? I canât apply in 2025 for example?
Iâve heard this from my tax lawyers too, and maybe we are talking to the same people. 
I donât quite follow the reasoning. Since having an apartment can be enough even without the 180 days, it is entirely possible for someone to be tax resident in PT and at the same time, be a resident of another contracting party under a DTT such that your treatment depends on the treaty provisions. Indeed, you donât really come under a DTT unless you are subject to taxation in both states. At least for the US, hav ing NHR and filing tax returns that way is very close to not having NHR and being a treaty resident of the US. (The exceptions being whether your self-employment is under the 120 day rule or not, and the treatment of SS and IRA distributions.) So much so that I think you would just file an NHR return every year and be in the same place as not filing a return at all.
So I donât quite get that having an apartment with NHR but not being full time could somehow be set up to be bad faith or a false representation. But I pay advisors to disagree with me, not to agree with me.
No, you cannot.
Thereâs ample time remaining though in 2024, if you are keen to take action.
I think the question being raised here is whether the apartment is enough or not; it can be, but I think the assertion here is that the PT IRS might come along and say it isnât enough after the fact because merely leasing an apartment for a year wasnât sufficient intent, and yanking NHR status ex post facto. Remember here that the clause that says that âan apartment is enough even if under 180 daysâ comes with a proviso of that apartment being domicile / primary residence; it isnât just âhaving an apartmentâ. They may be handing out NHR to people on a presumption that you intend to move, and thus could revoke it later based on a âwell you didnât actually mean itâ.
Indeed there is ample time. The problem is not having the tax liability in 2024 for money i have earned outside Portugal. Even though most of it is exempt, Capital gains is not exempt apparently.
This might help you further re CGT applicability vs. NHR.
If youâre still tax resident elsewhere, the DTA between that country and Portugal may anyway make you tax resident for treaty purposes there instead of Portugal. So the treaty might make the capital gains not be taxable in Portugal anyway for 2024.
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There certainly is a DTA between my country and Portugal but the only problem is Capital gains are 100% tax free and i dont even need to report my trades, rather just the wealth.
if we assume the link above I quoted has some truth in it, your scenario may fall into the category of:
(5) Gains derived from sale of portfolio foreign shares
- Rule: Almost all tax treaties (and Article 13(5) OECD Model) give exclusive taxing rights over portfolio gains to Portugal.
- Outcome: NHR exemption is not applicable and gains become taxable on realization at 28% flat rate.
So youâd need to specifically check your DTAA and see for yourself which rule applies.
However, even if you strike lucky and permitted to be taxed at 0% at your âhome countryâ - there is no way to declare it on the Portuguese IRS system online (as far as I remember). They only offer options for NHR exemptions where they apply (and they donât apply for CGT as per the above discussion).
There was a post earlier some time on this forum which described that in practice youâd need to declare and pay your non-exempt tax in PT, then claim to AT that you have been already taxed in your other âhome countryâ under DTAA, and the AT will refund you. But if I remember that post correctly the method of claiming back was through a court case to AT.