Just chiming in my thoughts.
The IRA route doesnāt make sense to me. You are adding layers of complexity and risk to a situation that already has enough uncertainty. IRAs are not exactly meant for this purpose. That doesnāt mean you couldnāt find a way to do it, but I donāt see that as a solid approach.
In terms of custodians, itās the sort of thing Goldstar Trust might do. I have not done this specific thing with them, but I have done offshore IRAs through them and I donāt know that I see this being significantly different, really. I expect they will want to talk to your Portuguese lawyer and request all the appropriate documentation, but thatās just paperwork. You should not need the onshore LLC - you are customer of record with Goldstar as the custodian, Goldstar purchases the offshore LLC on your behalf. Or thatās how it should work. That said, they will also charge you for all the time and effort youāre asking them to go through to set this whole thing up.
At least one fund will, Iāve been told, work with you on the āwhat if it doesnāt go throughā problem, e.g. theyāll let you back out - maybe not right away, youād have to wait for the next new investor to transfer the shares to, but theyāre willing to do so assuming the reasons are decent. I imagine thatās not the default stance, but again, it seems possible.
As to Michaelās point - I imagine the reason most people want to do this is āthatās where I have the necessary cash that doesnāt have anything else to do for 5 years anywayā. So maybe itās the only way some people can do it. But youāre adding layers of complexity and fuss. Trade-offs as always.
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Is anyone else applying with a family? Iām planning to apply with both my parents because they are over 65 and therefore are automatically considered my dependents. That means we can all go under a single application. Weāre planning to all contribute part of the funds, and only I will need to set up the SDIRA. I wonder if that will cause problems.
Are people still meeting to discuss this or did I miss the boat already?
Has anyone on this thread conclusively determined if itās compliant on both US and PT end to use IRA funds for the investment funds? And if so, what the path is (i.e. IRA LLC to PT LLC to fund OR other)? Iām not interested in the discussion of self-dealing here, unless someone has actually discovered and can site an official ruling ā iām more interested in if PT considers the fund source from a single beneficiary LLC to be compliant on there end, etc.
Thanks!
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I am also interested if the SDIRA self-dealing rule has been tracked down. Thanks.
Just curious if anyone has successfully used a self directed 401k option. I hear a lot about starting a llc, moving 401k funds into it and then investments (real estate, etc.)
Anyone find out anything definitive or actually gone this route yet?
Thanks
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Any definitive conclusions to this thread? I have a SoloK with check book and have made PEG investments in the US with it. If there are interested parties that want to Zoom, I would love to be a part of it. And posting our findings here. Full disclosure, I am a tax accountant, but I have no idea how to go about this from the PT side.
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There are no conclusions yet ā itās currently either untested or in the worksā¦ but I did connect to both a US-based financial advisor (living in Lisbon) and a Portuguese attorney who are pretty confident they could successfully navigate this scenario and comply with both the US IRS and PT immigration.
The attorney: Madalena Monteiroā¦ she is smart and an excellent creative thinker / problem solver. We also really appreciate the CFP: John McNertney. Good luck and please let me know if you actually move forward!
Moderator note: Please only share contact details via PM.
I wanted to check in to see if anyone made progress on using an IRA funds to obtain a Portuguese Golden Visa. I have a SDIRA with check writing and an LLC, which I use to participate in private equity offerings. Iām hoping I can leverage the infrastructure that I already set up. I would love to hear from the community what youāve uncovered.
Hi Cynthia,
I recently learned about the Nomad Gate website while researching Portugalās Golden Visa program. Like you, Iām interested in using my SDIRA funds for the GV. Did you make any progress on whether this is doable from a US and PT perspective?
Cheers,
Jonathan
Hi -
I did do a deep diveā¦ to much to go into here but PM me and we can email or talk further
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Hi- I came across this thread when looking for this information, are you still willing to share what youāve learned with another newbie?
FWIW, Citi told me they do not have any retail presence in PT. Only some commercial presence.
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Iād encourage people to research the application process from the Portuguese side. Having retained lawyers in both the US (specializing in permitted investments for self-directed IRAs/Solo 401ks) and in Portugal (to assist in submitting applications for a āGolden Visaā) Iāve found that the Portuguese bank account into which funds must be sent must be in the name of the applicant, or a corporation (Unipessoalā¦ the equivalent of an LLC) that is wholly owned and controlled by the applicant. I have not found that my solo 401k entity can open a bank account in Portugal AND have that account be attributed to the applicant. But if you move money out of the self-directed IRA/solo 401k entity, you must take it as a distribution from the (tax advantaged) retirement account (and pay the penalty if you are below distribution-age.) If someone gets a legal opinion (from a Portuguese law firm) that contradicts this, Iād love to see it!
So the entire thing is getting hung up on the name on the Portuguese bank account?
Joining this thread as Iām interested in this path as well. Thanks all!
Bumping this up - any updates? Yes, I think the bank account name is the key thing. A custodian for a self directed IRA in the US will want the custodian name listed as the āownerā of the account. You could just write a check from a so-called ācheckbookā IRA or 401k, but if you write it to a bank account owned by you, it would definitely be a flag during an audit. That said, no audits likely given low staffing at the IRS!
It sounds like weāre in similar situations. I have a self-directed IRA with an investment LLC (I am the sole member). Could you please let me know what firm you retained in the US? Iād like to get a memo documenting their view that this investment doesnāt run afoul of any IRA investment restrictions. Also, were you able to work through the Portuguese side of things? Iād like to hear more about your experience to date.
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Lucas - we are using NSM in Lisbon for our GV process. No complaints. I know a lot of folks on this site either hate or love their lawyers. Regarding ERISA, There is a lawyer in Tulsa that I worked with for a decade on ERISA matters for the company in which I worked. He is brilliant, practical, and charges Tulsa rates, not NYC or SF rates. Martin Wing with Conner & Winters. Good luck!
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FWIW, in an effort to try to avoid the domestic LLC, I did some further investigation here. It looks like Goldstar doesnāt permit direct investment into international real estate, according to their FAQ: FAQs: Self-Directed IRAs - GoldStar Trust. It might work if you choose an investment fund, not real estate, however.