The fee with the bank is there though. I think it’s 10 basis points annually. Less convoluted, but there is still a fee.
My tax advisors did not look favorably on using an IRA because of the potential benefits received from the investment.
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Correct. It’s listed in the OP and included, so their expense ratio (to use the US fund term) is 1.9% in total. All my Vanguard funds are laughing at that ER.
@ihtfp95 you’re right. Splitting the subscription fee over the period is overly simplistic and not a fair comparison. And I also did not add the 10 basis points that @MB101 pointed out that a bank would charge for holding IMGA units.
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@MB101 i was reading in another thread about this and it looks like there’s a 0.2% setup fee for buying units to be held in a bank? If that’s the case my initial post does not factor this and is kind of like a 0.2% subscription fee for IMGA though not charged by them but by the depository bank.
I think i need to either add another reply here about this factoring this in. Or amend my original post or perhaps add a correction for the benefit of all readers.
Each bank is different and has tons of fees. My recollection was bison was 10 basis point holding fee and 20 basis points on transfers of funds out. ATLANTICO was 10 holding. Nothing on transfer in but 10 out. ATLANTICO had a really steep fee for requesting ARI documentation.
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I’d love to hear specifics. I’m really muddying the waters because I am going to use my Fedgov 401k which I can withdraw from before 59 as a retired “special category” retiree.
Just to mention BPI Portugal as an alternative. Substantially lower fees, consequently better track record than IMGA. But not available to US persons due to FATCA issues.
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For what it’s worth, it appears that Bison Bank recently changed its redemption fee to 50 basis points, up from 20 basis points.
I haven’t done a deep dive into the numbers, but I wonder if that changes the cost-benefit of going with Bison Bank over Optimize and vice versa for US citizens.
@misterferguson thats crazy expensive. If the fund has grown, I think a 0.5% on exit is much more money than the initial 1% subscription.
Do you know if these fees are listed somewhere?
I just received an email from Nuno da Rocha Correia at Bison Bank clarifying that the .5% withdrawal fee only applies when a client leaves the GV process early. How they determine that exactly, I am awaiting further clarification.
So they charge a annual 0.1% depository fee.. so maybe the 0.5% is 5x of that?
Not sure I understand what you’re asking.
I know Nuno and he’s a trustworthy guy, but this doesn’t make much sense. IMGA is a publicly traded fund. Does that mean only GV holders are charged this 0.5% fee? Is it Bison or IMGA that charges the fee?
Based on what I understand, it’s Bison that is charging the fee. I asked him for clarification on how Bison Bank determines who is and isn’t charged this fee and this was his response:
Thank you for your follow-up and for raising this important question. To clarify, Bison Bank considers an early withdrawal from the Golden Visa process to occur when a client chooses to exit their investment before the designated term or required period for the Golden Visa has been completed. In other words, if the client decides to redeem their investment and close their account prior to fulfilling the entire duration stipulated for the Golden Visa, this is classified as an early withdrawal.
Tbh, I don’t find this response satisfactory at all as it seems extremely arbitrary. I recommend that others here who are invested with them reach out to voice their displeasure as I have.
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I have asked Nuno to point me to this specific clause (connecting the investment with GV early withdrawal) in the initial disclosure. Lets see what he comes up with.
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He replied saying this “The disclosure documents—chapters 21.1 and 22.2—outline the redemption fee and other conditions.”
I have to go get my backup drives to look at the disclosure document I got in 2021
I did find this document called price-list on the website:
And Section 21.1 does talk about “redemption” but it says exempt for third party domestic funds.
Agreed, this is extremely arbitrary. Honestly, they don’t have the data to know if a holder has abandoned the GV program. What if they haven’t abandoned, but have been denied for some bureaucratic reason (e.g., missing or late paperwork)? If you have the GV for two years, but don’t renew for some reason, do you pay the fee or not? These are rhetorical questions here, but I’m curious to understand this new fee better.
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