Looking for any words of encouragement…I am about to buy into our fund (open ended) to kick things off but am concerned given all the uncertainty I’ve read. Small bit about us - we’re not looking to move abroad for about 10 years. We don’t “need” the money we’re investing right now but we’re not wealthy(my husband is a firefighter). We’ve always dreamt about retiring in Europe and with the current political situation in the US, we really want a plan B for us and our kids.
Is it all a big scam or is the timeline/process the “scam” but it works out in the end? Any positive stories? TIA!
**Thanks for all the replies. I should have stated that our main goal is to get EU citizenship
2 Likes
This is only one opinion, mine, but based on what you wrote, I think this is a terrible idea for someone in your situation. Wait until you are ready to retire and you can get residency in Portugal, or many other places in the world, for virtually free. If you invest that money over 12 year period – historically, the U.S. stock market has seen average annual returns around 10%, which translates to a cumulative return of approximately 214% over 12 years.
If you said you had $2,000,000 or more saved up and could be fine if you lost 50% of what you would invest in a gold visa, I would have a different opinion.
11 Likes
I’d tend to agree with Terrence. If we had to do it over there is no chance we would go down the Portugal ARI route. None. Zero. While I personally do not like the term “scam” this program is no longer what it was a handful of years ago, and there is no guarantee that it will not change further. Living with this uncertainty is not much fun.
If we had to do it over (and we just might) we would sell our villa here, move back to Britain or Canada and then maybe apply for one of the Caribbean programs that are available, if we want to chase the sun in a decade or so.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck as this process may test your patience and resolve. 
6 Likes
Unless you specifically want a Portuguese/EU passport for whatever reason, I would not recommend investing in PT GV.
And even that passport dream is becoming more elusive.
For the objective as you describe it (retiring in Europe in 10 years) you actually do not need to invest a ton of cash at all.
Look up the residency options across Europe that do not require any investment (technically it would require some expenses/fees of course but nowhere near €500k).
5 Likes
On the other hand, this 
I also do not recommend.
As things ‘progress’, those still existing residency options will go extinct one by one, or best case will become much harder to get, more expensive, with more physical stay requirements etc. etc.
Act now, start your Plan B residency clock ticking, but choose wisely, and preferably without spending a ton of cash unless you have an unlimited supply of it.
5 Likes
I don’t think so. No evidence of this on any widespread basis that I have seen. I think it is the opposite. Citizenship will get increasingly difficult to obtain anywhere, but long term residence will be easy if you aren’t competing with locals for resources.
It may come down to a type of restricted residence permit that comes with conditions such as
-you or your dependents can never qualify for citizenship under this residence permit
-you must live only outside certain overcrowded cities.
Either way, I think most western countries have birthrate problems and will need more people in the future, not less.
1 Like
AFAIK there’s no real alternative to the PGV if you want to get citizenship in the EU, and don’t want to spend a lot of time in the EU.
If you truly could burn all that money and are extremely patient and relaxed, go for it.
If not, well, seriously reconsider and ask why you’re doing this, what you want out of it, and the alternatives you have.
Offhand I’d at least consider the following countries as alternatives, depending on what you’re looking for
Argentina
Turkey
Costa Rica
Taiwan
Japan (tricky, though)
Montenegro
Probably some others, but I’m not super plugged in these days.
2 Likes
Above I was referring to the ‘remote residency’ options, of which there are currently a few around but not many. These may go extinct easily within next 10 years.
1 Like
Portugal Golden Visa can be a great option. As you can probably tell by some of the responses here and other things you can read online… People who are in the process and who have been in the process for several years are pretty frustrated with the delays that we’ve all faced. My understanding is that our attorney in Lisbon has over 800 applicants that he represents waiting for their biometrics interview and there are most likely 400,000 people that the government’s trying to get processed before the end of the year. Despite these delays, we are very glad that we started our process 3 years ago and that we’re not starting now. The longer people wait the higher there is a risk that programs can end or can be altered considerably most of the time that means increasing the price of investments and the type of investments that’s already happened several times in Portugal. And many other countries have eliminated their programs all together. That doesn’t mean that you should jump in to a fund right now without knowing all the details with the ever-changing laws related to citizenship. As you might have read, there is an effort to try to change the citizenship timeline to 10 years from the date of receiving residency… Which for most will mean a 15-year time frame to get citizenship as opposed to the approximate 5-6 year time frame from date of application.
My understanding is that this is very much in flux right now but that there should be a more definitive resolution by the end of September. The supreme Court ruled on something yesterday or the day before but I’m not sure how much that applies to Golden visa program.
If you are investing in a fund then you may want to wait until you know all the details after that is settled. It doesn’t mean that you won’t want to move forward but it is something that you may want to consider especially if part of your plan b is for your family and children to be able to have citizenship.
As others are pointing out in this thread, there are many other places that have golden Visa type programs but the only one I know in Europe that does not require the applicant to live in country during the process is Portugal. Costa Rica and other places also have in-country requirements but they are not as stringent. But just beware that some attorneys will tell you that you don’t need to be in country for some of those programs but many times when people go up for their interviews they get called on it by the officials. I know this is happening in Costa Rica for example.
The Caribbean has some more lenient programs where you can just buy some real estate for about $300,000 and you don’t have to be there.
That all said if you’re just looking for A plan b for your own retirement, there are retirement programs all over Europe and all over the world that are not that hard to qualify for.
2 Likes
I as well no longer think it is a great option for most people most of the time.
If you are not planning to move to Europe for another 10 years… I understand you have this dream. However, the world changes all the time. The EU has many issues, and the current path isn’t sustainable. For all we know, in 10 years, there may no longer be a European Union. What then? Especially if you were thinking “somewhere else in Europe with PT as a gateway”?
Throw into this all of the issues and delays with the GV process as it stands, and … there is no way I’d be signing up now if it were me.
There are many other options for Plan B, as others have written. As I have written before (just dig through the history of my posts, I don’t want to write it all again), what you need to do is sit down and examine what you even think Plan B means and how it applies to you, break it down into components, and work it through. Then you can figure out what makes sense for you.
And if it is just “live in Europe”, there are many other options for that too. I agree with others here that, for those with some modicum of money and a willingness to actually move, there will always be open doors. I do think that the price tag will go up - being able to move on Social Security income alone will no longer be enough - but it will still be there.
3 Likes
I’ll add some words of encouragement. I am happy (still) that I did the GV. I am lucky enough to have received my card (started in 2021). My goal was also an EU passport but even if the EU falls apart or I need to wait another 10 years for a passport, I would be happy with my Portuguese residency (am actually starting the process of buying). Yes, it sucks that the goal line always changes, and the wait is long and I’m not getting any younger but I really love it here (am in Lisbon now, hence the “here”). Getting better in the language all the time. People are thrilled that you are learning it as they know it’s a tough language for foreigners to master. Some of the nicest people.
Have you looked at descendancy programs first? (Italy, Ireland, Germany mostly). That may be a quicker path. I agree with others that if your retirement is far off, I would not count on those programs still being available. Things are moving a bit to the right here in much of EU.
I would say you need to be satisfied if “all” you have is Portuguese residency at some point. EU passport may be icing on the cake.
3 Likes
I’ll add some additional words of encouragement, specifically regarding having a plan B.
Like you and your husband, we want to retire in Europe, and we want a plan B. The 2.5 years since we invested in Portugal have been both exciting and frustrating.
We invested in a rehabilitation in the Algarve and now have an apartment in Portugal (exciting) and we’ve submitted all of our documents twice to SEF/AIMA and have nothing to show for it yet (frustrating).
But, honestly, for me the most important aspect has been to wake up every day knowing that I am taking some steps and making some progress on a plan B. Waiting and hoping would be more frustrating than the path we’ve taken.
Good luck to you whatever you decide.
2 Likes
Wow I’m impressed by your attitude! I can relate, only so far as I’ve just made our applications and funded an investment. I almost quit a dozen times these past months but kept going because just feeling like I’m doing something felt better than doing nothing. We might end up disappointed, but the slim chance we might be pleasantly surprised won out 
1 Like
Yes, I agree with all the words of encouragement too, as obtaining a PT residency is a nice enough thing on its own.
However as I mentioned, there are several alternatives when it comes to ‘only’ getting the residency in Europe, and much faster/cheaper ones at that.
For the potential path to citizenship in Europe with no stay on the ground there are no viable alternatives at the moment, if we take ‘Europe’ in its more narrow sense 
But we never know, as this potential path may extend beyond reasonable timeline, as well as new ones may open elsewhere..
(Or you may just take Europe in its geographic sense and get yourself a new citizenship for mere $400k within 6 months..)
3 Likes
Thank you for your thoughts!
What other countries can get citizenship in Europe?
Citizenship with zero or minimal stay - none except Turkey (that’s still partly in Europe).
Residency - a few more options, some mentioned in the posts above.
3 Likes
Valery,
You have received plenty of excellent advice, on both positive and negative aspects of Portuguese GV route. All of the above points are very valid, especially those referring to the uncertainty of sporadic and unpredictable changes, and ever-increasing anti-immigration feelings throughout the EU, Portugal including. That being said, perhaps it is the best to consider PT GV more as an investment option, with potential added benefit of EU residency and/or citizenship. Here are few benefits and/or considerations:
-
It is the only still viable programme (so far!) that actually allows you to obtain an EU citizenship with minimum stay and reasonable investment. If you have more money to burn, Malta may be your best choice. However, if you do not need EU citizenship, then Greece might be a better option as it is cheaper, still allows real-estate purchases to qualify, and requires no physical stay in the country to maintain your GV residency. Latvia is still the cheapest GV residency, but you will need to travel there once a year to maintain your residency. To get either Greek or Latvian citizenship, you will need to live there better part of the year.
-
If you want EU citizenship for your kids, then it is best to apply ASAP. To properly qualify for their own citizenship, they must be your dependents, technically at the time of their own application for citizenship. They can only apply after you, the primary investor, become a citizen. Considering the long processing delays of PT GV and potential legal changes on the horizon, this might become problematic. However, you would at least have a good chance for a legal argument in court that “they were your dependents when you applied, and they aged out due to bureaucratic delays”.
-
When I started to investigate my options in 2020, there were far more opportunities than there are today. Gone are Spain, Ireland, Bulgaria (not EU), Cypress etc. Malta has been reprimanded by EU and had severely altered (or altering) its programme. Greece has raised its investment limits in all big and desirable locations (though it still allows real-estate investment). Portugal has made its PT GV much less attractive with elimination of real-estate option and its original very lucrative “Non-habitual Resident” tax regime. And so, don’t count on something to always being there.
-
If all you really want is to retire in Europe (like I did), then as others mentioned, there are other options which are far less expensive. Many EU countries would certainly allow you to live there provided you can demonstrate sufficient means to not become a financial drain on their resources. However, those would probably not result in an eventual EU citizenship and might not qualify your dependents even for the EU residency.
-
Until now (and it is being tested in both Parliament and Constitutional Courts), Portugal has not applied changes retroactively. This has been a major benefit since it gives you at least some level of certainty that legal protections exist. However, will this change in the future is anyone’s guess as public sentiment is shifting against immigration and rules are becoming much tougher.
-
If you are coming from the U.S., you might want to explore the option of using your Self-Directed IRA funds to finance your investment. This would minimise your disposable cash outlay.
-
If you really do want to move to Portugal, it is a rather easy country to live if you don’t concentrate excessively on bureaucracy, which is very pervasive and highly inefficient. Authorities also allow (or rather - don’t care) you to reside on the national territory with a pending application. We moved here after our pre-approval in 2022 though before our biometric appointments and well before my card was issued just earlier this year (my wife still does not have hers). Your retirement lifestyle really would not be too affected, though some state services will not be readily available to you.
-
Compare to Greek and Latvian (or German, Dutch, etc.), Portuguese is by far easier to learn even though it is harder than some others (French, Italian, or Spanish).
As many rightfully pointed out, this should be a long-term “investment” decision, and there are plenty of risks involved. These are very real, including political and economic uncertainty of the EU, potential, or rather - probable, changes to the PT GV programme, tightening of EU citizenship requirements, etc. And so, consider your risk tolerance, both financially and emotionally, and carefully weigh your options. For the EU citizenship that can be applied ahead of the retirement with minimum time-on-the-ground, Portugal GV is still a better option. For the EU residency in retirement with physical re-location to Europe, it most certainly is not.
Good luck!
13 Likes
At the very least, I’d personally recommend holding off until the impact of all the changes to PT immigration and citizenship laws become fully clear.
Had I known what the timelines, delays, and policy whiplash would be, I absolutely 100% would not have pursued the PT GV. The pathway to citizenship has just doubled, and during the time since we’ve invested, the SP500 has nearly doubled, and our fund has returned about 6%. There is not a single axis along which this path makes sense for me now.
If you’re willing to move to another country, there are still places in the EU that will grant you citizenship after 5 years of legal residency.
4 Likes
It really hasn’t yet. Let’s wait for the final draft of the law.
4 Likes
Thank you Roman for sharing your experience. I agree with everything that you pinpointed. Just want to add one important thing i.e portuguese banks. For those who want to live in Portugal, having a stable local bank account is vital. However, portuguese banks are surely the worst ones I have ever experienced in my life. Therefore, it is best that doing research well before settling down in this country. It is very illusional. It looks easy and charming but it might turn out brutal. There are many feedbacks about banking services that can be found in this forum.
2 Likes