PGV / ARI Rage, Tragedy, & General Madness

Despite all that ‘success’ and money pouring into AIMA, I’ve seen no real progress on my ARI application in the past 3 years :roll_eyes:

Oh, because "we left until the end… those that pay the most, the golden visas,” said António Leitão Amaro.

101 million euros was the revenue generated by AIMA’s services, an amount which, after subtracting the 39 million euros in operating costs, resulted in a positive balance of 62 million euros.

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My contribution to the day’s quota of rage, tragedy and general madness:

Portugal has unbelievably draconian naming and shaming/libel laws. But surely there must be some way to share info on the lawyers, immigration consultants, realtors etc that feed in our pond?

Our first lawyer, associated with an immigration consultancy, stole money from us (who knew Portuguese lawyers don’t have trust funds!?). The second firm, who’ve made quite a name for themselves since, cost me 4 lost years with SEF through their ineptitude. And the current lot started off well, but are now basically running an immigration mill, which has left them incapable of dealing with more complex legal situations. I’ve reached the point where I just don’t trust them to get the law right.

I have yet to see a law firm that grasps the incredible long term opportunities that could flow from building a relationship of trust with HNW GV investors and their families. And what reviews are out there don’t seem particularly reliable (as in reviewing your lawyer after one consultation, or even after they submit your docs the first time, seems more like sucking up than a genuine assessment of skill). But if anyone has found a clever, ethical, hardworking lawyer with genuine immigration law expertise amongst the 36,600 advogados in Portugal, please let me know.

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DM me fir a recommendtion if you need one.

The government posted on Facebook today to declare that the extra AIMA mission is over, and MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! All backlogs resolved!

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Yeah… when António talks, it’s mostly BS :roll_eyes:

More here…

I have nothing but good things to say about our lawyers at Deloitte Legal in Lisbon. We’ve worked with them for over 5 years now. DM me if you want a contact.

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Too true. If I were gov’t I would just go for the third point. It brings in cash; and it avoids the increasing criticism from EU about paid citizenship schemes. And I can throw my hands up and say Brussels made me do it! What’s not to like about that as a policy?

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This is devastating news! It means the end of the road for this entertaining whingefest forum. And I have to eat humble pie and admit all those lawyers, agents and advisers were right all along. Damn! I have lost! Oh … wait a minute … I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel … that huge queue outside the AIMA office, may of whom clearly slept on the pavement …

Happy new year to all. May things not get even worse this year :champagne: :sweat_smile:

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“The future’s uncertain and the end is always near…”

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Something possibly controversial that needs to be said:

People who apply for PGV now (since the TC decision) are part of the problem.

Now that it is abundantly clear that the Portugal political and legal system has no intention of honoring its promises, new applicants are simply rewarding the scammers.

They say you are “eligible for citizenship in 10 years”, but as we all now know, that’s 10 years to apply for citizenship from first residence card, which doesn’t come immediately, and then you have to wait for IRN processing, which is now taking 3-5 years, or even if reverting back to historical averages will be 2 years. So your timeline is 12 years minimum, 13-15 years optimistically, and 17-19 years if current average processing times continue.

The state has now made clear via both the actions the actions of all major parties in the legislature and the TC decision that it has no intention of protecting you from changes to the terms of citizenship qualification during this time. It could, and very well may, add:
(1) Increased language requirements;
(2) Physical presence requirements, which may be required for citizenship even if not required for GV residence renewal;
(3) Amorphous, discretionary “integration” requirements.

The risk of these changes is not remote or imaginary. Rather, elements of these changes were an actual AD (current ruling) party position less than one year ago: Moving the Goalposts on Citizenship again - #41 by PTbound

The Portuguese state is untrustworthy. It doesn’t respect your investment. It certainly doesn’t respect your time.

All of the seven points I mentioned in my original post are still true or worsened:

If you absolutely must obtain an EU country’s citizenship, ask yourself why, examine the answer, and find another way. You should be able to do better than 15 years.

Going forward, if you apply for Portugal Golden Visa knowing what is now known, you are not buying a “call option”. You are contributing to the destruction of the rule of law. You are supporting a system of dishonesty that has created immense misery for people like yourself. You are also likely funding your own misery and the misery of your family.

Portugal Golden Visa is an unwise, irresponsible, and unethical choice.

Addendum: Optimize, a firm that just a few weeks ago ran a sponsored feature in IMI Daily falsely arguing that citizenship was not part of PGV, is now running this ad stating: “Rules May Change Soon”.

Really? Which “rules”? The golden visa residence permit terms aren’t currently under debate, so they must be referring to the citizenship rules! :enraged_face:

The ad placement is perfect – look at the URL :laughing:

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I assume you have formally withdrawn from the GV process - liquidated your investment, repatriated the proceeds, informed your lawyer and returned your residency card to AIMA (provided it was issued).

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Au contraire, the 2021 cohort of PGV applicants still hold option value in their hands. The 2025 cohort and anyone still jumping into the frying pan now, that’s a different story.

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I didn’t say people who applied in the past should withdraw and liquidate. Many in previous cohorts are stuck in illiquid investments, including me.

If my investment were liquid, I would have withdrawn already.

But in any case, continuing to hold an investment is not the same as injecting new money. It’s different on a personal level and different to the government and service providers who benefit financially from the GV.

New money is a signal that they can continue scamming without consequences.

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There must be thousands for whom the modified ARI still meets their eventual goals in ways suitable to them. Who are we to decide for them ? Each case is unique. It is harsh to call them ‘part of the problem’.

I personally know of one applicant for whom this program is still ideal – simply because there is no residency requirement.

Rules have changed and yet … the application is still in the pipeline and the investment is still in the country. Such cases are equally guilty of ‘rewarding the scammers’ and are equally ‘part of the problem’, if at all these statements are true for recent applicants in the first place.

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At an individual level, equating the free and uncompelled actions of a new investor to the immediate self-extrication of an existing investor, who may already have developed other ties to Portugal, and whose illiquid investment may be impossible to sell due to lack of buyers or only disposable at great financial loss, is preposterous.

At an institutional level, new money is functionally different from existing money. New money gets reported in the news, and is used to publicly judge the success or failure of investment programs. Existing money isn’t monitored or valued in the same way, and the government has made it extremely clear that they don’t care about existing investors.

The only way the government or any other country contemplating similar measures will realize Portugal screwed up is if new money stops.

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Thing is, it’s more that if people keep applying, it means the government didn’t screw up - it achieved its objectives without killing the goose. That it sucks for the people already in the program who had a different deal, well, that sucks for them, but who said it was going to be win-win.

so “screwed up” is quite a relative thing.

  1. Bulgaria apparently does too
  2. There’s no guarantee this won’t be retroactively removed before you can apply for citizenship. So at most you’re buying a chance to maybe get citizenship.
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Unless you are ethnically Bulgarian, Bulgaria will make you give up your original citizenship in the process. And of course there’s no guarantee Bulgaria won’t change its laws, either.

Yes that’s another thing I forgot to mention. Portugal is the only one that offers citizenship without residence requirements AND allows dual citizenship which are the two biggest factors for us. Also, you’re still getting a residence card under the GV program which is separate process from applying for citizenship. Yes Portugal could change the citizenship or GV requirements in the future but that can be said of ANY country. Let’s not pretend that there’s a government anywhere in the world that’s acting solely to benefit people and that they won’t change policies every few years when new parties are elected.

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