A US citizen shouldnât have an issue, because you still fall under visa waiver. Since youâre still traveling on your US passport, youâll still clear schengen fine one way or the other - you wonât be trapped per se. It might be inconvenient but you wonât be trapped. I certainly wouldnât be that concerned about it if it were me. Annoyed, inconvenienced (since if I get stamped then I will need to stop at a SEF border crossing to reverse the stamp), but not concerned.
The others, to my understanding, are not US citizens and so have issues with Schengen border crossing.
The value of those purchaseable passports concerns me. Everyone knows theyâre bought, basically, at what point do countries start rejecting them? EU isnât far from it. Though I suppose they are a $100k âvalid travel documentâ if what you are looking for is a document that lets you travel from one country of residence to another. But if you want that freedom, you probably want to create a mesh of residencies, not count on the visa-waiver aspect of your travel document.
Your point certainly stands though, PGV at this point is problematic for anyone who started the process too late. Of course, they always say that you need to arrange Plan B well before you need it, because you canât count on being able to do it when you need it. But if you just want EU residency, thereâs certainly other speedier options. Get the Greek one and pair it with a Caribbean CBI, you end up around the same cost as PGV or Spain. Youâll never become a Greek citizen but you donât necessarily care about that.
And for what itâs worth, merely holding a valid residence permit is sufficient for entry to Portugal through any Schengen border point, whether or not you have a valid passport. Itâs a specific explicit carve-out in the Schengen Borders Code, Article 6 sec 5(a). You might have an issue getting an airline to let you on the plane due to an invalid passport but you could always take a boat or something.
Our original end goal was EU citizenship to be able to live anywhere in Europe, which is why we did PGV. Of course, this decision was taken before Russia invaded Ukraine, when the US was in disarray but Europe appeared from the outside to be relatively stable.
Now, Europe is also in disarray, and the odds that Portugal continues to honor the program for the next ten years look no better than a coin flip. Economic downturn is coming, and this should be the moment where Portugal leans into PGV to attract more investment to survive the recession or worse; instead, the state is shredding its credibility in the eyes of investors right at the critical moment. Even if we moved to Portugal and could somehow find a way to avoid being trapped due to PGV renewal delays under current circumstances, the fact the state forced the residence permits of any lawful and compliant PGV investor into expiration is evidence of its lack of commitment and trustworthiness. On such shaky footing even now, how can you trust that PGV becomes more reliable even when external or internal circumstances get worse?
Would have been better off if we had kept the PGV money in our pocket to invest in virtually any other plan.
I would recommend considering a CBI program at another location in a South of Europe as an alternative or even as a parallel activity⊠Especially if you are a US citizen with all the current risks⊠Timelines are compressed beyond belief in contrast to PT GV⊠Citizenship acquired approx. 7 months after investmentâŠ
Itâs always a gamble whatever country you pick. Youâre dealing with sovereign governments who have their own imperatives. Those imperatives change over time. As such, the rules can too. Thereâs nothing stopping the Portuguese government - or indeed any other government - from moving the goalposts on you at some point down the road if thatâs what makes sense for it to do, and you wonât have any recourse. I think this is one of those things you just have to accept when you get into these processes. We want to believe there is a defined contractually-bound process with a known outcome but there just isnât.
Other places may look better at the moment. Of course things change and the places that look good now⊠can leave you disappointed 5 years from now, too.
It sounds like you should attempt to reclaim your investment and walk away. Sure that sucks but if youâre unhappy now⊠better to take your lumps and move on?
No, not all of them for sure. I am currently on the last leg of a process to receive one, and I bet you would never know it was kinda âboughtâ unless I tell you confidentially
The point of posting here is not about me. I already invested in the funds, and itâs too late to take my money out without significant loss. But itâs not to late to help others.
As for every country having risks, yes, this is true. The longer the process in any country, the greater the chance for the situation to worsen in any given country. Thus, would suggest that unless someone is fixated on living in a particular country, that it would be more advantageous to choose a country with a shorter process as tommigun suggested.
In Portugalâs case, the risks have already been realized, and the trend is worsening. The Portuguese government has chosen to do nothing to resolve this situation or to help stranded and disadvantaged PGVers, and as many other commenters have mentioned, the public doesnât care, so suing SEF likely wouldnât make a difference either.
The only thing that might make a difference is if people stop investing in PGV, and the domestic beneficiaries of PGVâs investment lose their golden goose as a result. So in addition to helping others, that is what I hope to contribute to accomplishing by posting.
I deplore how all of this has been packaged as some sort of easy-button âget a passport in 5 years, just give us moneyâ thing by some fair chunk of the industry thatâs sprung up around it. Even without the SEF delays, it never was and still isnât. Thereâs no guaranteed passport on the other side of the rainbow, thereâs just the chance at it. I think itâs going to end up in tears and crushed expectations for quite a number of people, that in the next few years the citizenship regs will get changed again and the âtiesâ thing is going to come back with a vengeance. But thatâs how the world often rollsâŠ
At a fundamental level I disagree with this. There are core concepts of human rights and rule of law that exist in Portugal. It would be greatly unfair to lead someone on for 4 years and have them invest in the country and learn the language, and the pull the rug out. The âtiesâ concept is already there with the requirement to learn the language. That is no easy accomplishment. You may be correct that the government will want to weed out people who have the most minimal of interactions with Portugal and who have no intention of benefiting the country, and probably those people will be weeded out. Of course, anything is possible and the government can change the laws virtually at will but I would expect some pushback on that from those who want to make Portugal a future home and help improve the country. Think about all the economic migrants that Portugal welcomes into the country and promises future citizenship. ARI applicants in many ways are in the same position of bringing something of value (in this case money instead of labor) to Portugal and becoming part of the society.
Edit: It is important to put this all into perspective. Here is my estimate of applicants for various Portugal visa program in the last 12 months:
-Asylum applicants (e.g., Ukraine) 40,000
-Economic migrants 10,000
-D7 Applicants 10,000
-ARI applicants 3,000
Each group of applicants brings something unique to Portugal. I would not expect citizenship rules for ARI applicants to change any more than for any other type of applicant. I do think the chances of the ARI program itself changing over the next few years for new applicants is good, but that is a totally different discussion.
Agree in principle. If the Portuguese state were still operating within the law, if SEF were renewing PGVs on time instead of letting them expire and stranding people, even if the state were taking clear and decisive action to resolve the ongoing issues, then this would be plausible.
But how can anyone justify moving their family to Portgual to make the necessary âtiesâ when the state isnât even making a good-faith effort to honor its end of the deal?
A very good point. Also GV investors are not supposed to move to the country. If they want to do that then there are other options. GV is expensive for the exact reason that investors do not have to develop strong âties.â If in the future the GV investors are asked to show strong ties in order to get permanent residency or citizenship, then it is a scam for sure.
Hi Everyone,
Iâm shocked to read the comments here on this thread, Iâve been preparing to apply for PGV for the past few months and was very close to buying a property there.
I already have a tax number and a bank account over there and Iâm close to signing a deed.
Should I really stay away from the whole thing?
Iâm only applying to eventually get the passport, I donât understand how come people are stranded there? Was it ever a must to live there until the issuance of PR or passports?
I live abroad and was just planning to commit to the 7 days per year requirement plus learning the language.
Please advise me on what to do and whether I should seriously consider to stop everything and not do it.
Many thanks
If you decide to proceed, anticipate lots of uncertainy and headaches and a wait time of around 10 years. If thatâs ok with you, then so be it. But if dealing with endless delays and a government that doesnât want you is going to keep you up at night, spare yourself the stress and financial loss that those of us trapped in this madness face.
Portugal is a great country to live in and youâd ever want to really live there, the D7 is a great and functional program. The golden visa is not.
Thanks for the feedback !
The thing is Iâm only doing it for the passort because mine doesnât get me into so many countries without visa, so I really thought this was a good opportunity without having to move and leave my home country.
Would you think the cause for the delays is because the countryâs overwhelmed by ukranian refugees so thereâs a huge backlog or are they really intentionally delaying things to stall the process and force people to give up?
Thank you so much again for the advice.
The GV program has been de facto halted before by the immigration authorities as it is now. There is various speculation as to why. One possibility is that the immigration officials donât like the GV program. Another is that they use it as leverage against the government, effectively halting it to deprive the government of revenue (we pay large fees upon approval and have no natural supporters within the country, making us riskless bargaining chips). Not sure which it is, but the speed at which other visa types are processes is proof that we are not delayed bc of covid or the Ukraine situation, but as a choice from SEF.
That said, the exact underlying reason isnât really relevant. From the perspective of the applicant, itâs delays and uncertainty either way. And as you can see from these forums, if you get skipped over for some reason, no one will ever answer your questions and your only recourse are the courts.
Does that still make it worthwhile? Thatâs a question for you. Given the timeline is 10 years, and we hope only that, and youâll be delayed mysteriously for years at a time, is it still worth it relative to other citizenship programs with different costs and access to travel? But be sure to make up your mind with a clear view of what youâre getting yourself into. I wish I had never done it, but my situation is not yours.
Thatâs very useful information, thank you so much for clarifying this.
I was under the impression that once the process starts even if there were some delays, we were guaranteed to get the citizenship as long as we held our end of the bargain.
I donât think itâs worth it if I were to invest but never get to the finish line.
Thanks again
