If you donāt mind the delays from the immigration authorities and are happy with the 10 year timeline, it does look better. From the stories weāve heard, not many people who get to the end of the waiting period have their citizenship denied. It is not guaranteed, but seems likely. The ones who have been denied were for ālack of tiesā to Portugal and some other adminstrative related delays or issues. The Ministry of Justice are the ones who confer citizenship, not the immigration authorities, and they havenāt seemed especially hostile to the GV. Of course, you are also subject to changes in the law, and we are just hoping that doesnāt happen!
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echoing what portunhol said. It has been happening, there is an intent that it should be that way for the most part, but there are no guarantees in the legal framework and no guarantees that the rules wonāt change down the road for that matter. Not that there are ever any guarantees in life anyway of course. Any impression you have received that there is a guarantee is a function of marketing by various players in industry that have sprung up around this.
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Lets see
- Pre approvals take arbitrary amount of time
- Final approvals take arbitrary amount of time
- There are many who have not gotten their biometrics appointment (All the way back to 2020). I am sorry but you have no recourse unless you go to court. Any sensible office would have already checked the list of pending applicants waiting for biometrics and would have invited them by now.
- There are many who are waiting for renewal appointments ( stuck in a territory)
- The total cost(travel, application fee, lawyer fee, paperwork, renewals) to get permanent residency would be $50,000 even by conservative estimates
- My Euro 350,000 broad market index fund investment ($420,000 in Sep 2021) is worth now Euro 365,000 ($365,000)
- The law is not clear on what counts as time spent in the country towards citizenship. I mean any law related to GV.
- With current timelines it will be easily 10 year wait for citizenship assuming the path still exists at that point.
- There is no way to contact SEF for any issue relating to your GV application.
You decide what you want to do.
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At this moment, most of us are foreseeing 18-24 months from initial submission of GV application to residence permit issuance. Considering 18-24 months again after 5 years of residency to get your citizenship, it could take min 8-9 years from your initial submission to obtain PT passport, if no change of citizenship law in future.
During GV stage, you are expected to spend 7 days per year in PT. As you are not taking fund route which usually has a nominal term, the timeline may be ok for you.
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Lots of peoples investments elsewhere are worth a lot less for reasons that have nothing to do with PGV. This includes lots of poor saps who have their money in 401ks where there are no alternatives besides the 3-5 funds that some 401k administer chose for them. So Iām not sure why this counts as a reason.
The citizenship law says nothing about time in country. It speaks of ālegal residenceā, which means the holding of a permit. The ātiesā obligation, such as it is spelled out in the regulations, and assuming it does apply, also does not actually speak of time in country, nor does it require it.
The rules for GV say nothing about citizenship because there is no relationship between GV and citizenship. Any relationship perceived is inferred not actual.
(To be clear: I also now discourage anyone from applying unless they are truly patient and have some very specific reason that other paths do not work for them. It sucks but thatās how it is. )
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Agree. The investmentās tanking is not SEFās fault. Just highlighting the Portuguese market.
If I had a do-over, I wouldnāt do PGV again. Iād save my money and use it on some other passports with shorter timelines. Iām still considering abandoning my PGV application just to save the money I will otherwise need to sink into renewal fees and travel costs.
PGV doesnāt have value as a backup plan because itās too slow and too unreliable. By 10 years from now when you finally reach your chance at citizenship, the chance that PGVās basis for citizenship would have changed in the meantime is too high. Yes, that risk exists in other countries, but all else equal, the longer the timeline, the higher the risk of change.
PGV also doesnāt have value as a place to live because SEF isnāt processing renewals timely, which is stranding PGVers. They cannot leave Portugal, because if they do, their Portugal residence permits are officially expired, so airlines and immigration officials from other countries wonāt allow them to return to Portugal / the EU. Some PGVers have even been arrested for attempting to return. So in order to create the ātiesā needed for citizenship, i.e. living in Portugal, you would have to gamble you and your familyās freedom to travel and risk stranding.
If you really want to live in Portugal, use D7. And if youāre doing this for the backup passport, there has to be a better way you can use 500k EUR.
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Hello 
I see that there are a lot of unhappy people on this forum. 
I see that it is mainly due to the slow pace of the lawyers and the unprofessionalism of the estate agents or funds. 
I have many of my contacts who have actually had this problem and I have others who on the contrary have had their Golden Visa quickly and have had a very professional service. 
There are also things you need to know before you start and during the process to make things run more smoothly, so maybe it would be interesting to set up a group on the subject to talk about it. 
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The most specific source of our dissatisfaction is ultimately with SEF, because SEF is the agency failing / declining to timely process PGV initial applications and renewals. But SEFās actions are also protected by the inaction of the rest of the government and legal system, as well as the indifference of the general public toward PGV investors.
If you are suggesting that some lawyers have better relationships with SEF than others and that this can move people up in the SEF queue, then yes, that information would be of interest and I believe other existing threads cover those topics.
But even then, I would be curious whether such relationship(s) would be of long-term value after SEFās dissolution, or address the broader issues and risks noted on this thread.
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Hello,
Yes, thatās exactly it. This is still a service often based on human beings, so there is some excellent and some not so good. Yes, there are more efficient law firms with better relations with the institutions. 
As for the SEF, things are supposed to change in the coming months, but it remains more obscure because we are talking about a public institution, but you have to know that there are some more or less fast, especially Lisbon is very congested. 
This is also something to be taken into account. Golden Visa does not always have a good image unfortunately. Many people believe, wrongly, that they are the reason for the soaring property prices. Hence the governmentās incentive to invest in funds investing in companies in Portugal. These activities create a real local economic dynamic as opposed to real estate. 
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What other GV program youāre considering? Iām interested to learn about better options as I didnāt start yet PGV after all those negative feedbacks I came across about it.
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How the relationship would impact the processing time? Iād assume things to be systematic and have fair treatment among all applicants?
Of course dealing with someone who know the process well would save time of resubmitting but I guess thatās allā¦
Lastly, when you say the government would refer one investment over another (fund over real estate) that also would be against the fair treatments because simply they can stop the real estate path if itās not desirable from economical perspective.
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Unfortunately, those āplayersā who have sprung up are the only ones providing information, while the SEF is ultimately withholding investorsā money and investment, while it misses its own deadlines and otherwise leaves a vacuum of progress, process, and integrity
The ties obligation is murky because it seems like there are different definitions based on which government organization is referencing that information and the language used. There may not be a physical residency requirement, but clearly enough people believe language acquisition is a prerequisite
Unfortunately, the government has refused to prevent fraudulent inducement or misleading marketing and advertising because it (most likely) felt that the capital influx was in its best interests
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Hereās the big oneā¦
Is anyone honestly surprised that as soon as the first (maybe itās 2nd or 3rd) cohort of GV-ers is ready to get PT citizenship after ācompletingā its investments and having done its time requirements, the GV citizenship pathway appears to be teetering?
Did the Portuguese offer the quid-pro-quo: receipt of a capital influx in return for citizenship, and then suddenly ultimately decide to not honor their own program? At this point in time, they are at minimum slow-walking any progress (whether intentionally or by ineptness or due to political uncertainty-- irregardless, the outcome is the same!).
Now that much (but not all) GV-sourced capital is tied up in long-term real estate projects with startup developers (whoāve oftentimes never done PMC / EPC work), how will the investors get back their money in a timely manner or even at all? The developers have made their money on the markups anyway (yes, in diligence, you will find out they bought land directly, marked up the value, and contributed it at inflated valuations to the SPV). If the SPVs go bankrupt, the developers have made money while the SPVs and investors loseā¦
Did the Portuguese government try to hoodwink economic migrants, by their actions?
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What do you mean?
All these GV agencies have started capitalizing on the news. Their messages to ones that have already applied " Donāt worry it will take time to implement the decision". And to the ones who are yet to apply "Hurry and apply soon since GV is going to end "
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When it should be āhurry and run away from Portugal before you get sucked in, end up with nothing, and never see your money againāā¦
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