I was considering a few hotel investments and no one could reassure me that there would be any real meat behind the guarantied buy-back. I work in commercial real estate in the US and what I know is that there are no real guaranties in finance. These companies will all claim to have a strong track record of performing on past buy-backs, and that probably checks out. However, they are using incoming investor funds from new projects as the source of buy-back funds. What happens when the golden visa party is over and there are no new funds flowing in? Sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me. The other issue with the fractional-interest (for lack of better term) hotel investments I saw is that while your GV investment is meeting the minimum threshold of 280 or 350k, you are not getting a fee-simple unit for that, but rather a portion of the overall project. If you divide the total project capitalization by the number of rooms in the hotel, the per-key cost to build is higher than can be supported with any comparable sales. To me, youāre better off spending 400k on renovated real estate in a low-density area. At least that way you know youāre paying a āmarketā value and not overpaying.
The contracts for investment are not with the government, they are with private investment companies. They have no control over what the PT government offers or provides yo u
Wow, thatās a really good point.
Does anyone here have GOOD experiences with this process at all?
Or even - neutral? Like, they spent the money, it was delayed, but after ~7-8 years they got the full citizenship, money back, and now things are ok?
Thanks for all the help everyone
The reason to avoid real estate is that the government is removing that option from the GV and you dont want to be stuck with a house or fraction of a hotel which you have to sell to renew your visa, if they even approve the application at all.
Whatās your experience with investing? The way youāre talking about it suggests you need to read more about how this process works
Your investment is entirely separate from the golden visa process except that you need to make an investment in Portugal to get the visa.
Does anybody have experience or reviews with the following companies? Iāve approached them and would love your insights, thoughts, pros and cons. Thanks
1 GV-PT (gv-pt.com)
2 Latitude World (Latitudeworld.com)
Absolutely 0 experience.
Sorry, I shouldāve clarified my goals. My main goal is to get the eventual EU citizenship. Not necessarily make a massive profit or anything like that. I am looking at this from a freedom of travel / gaining citizenship POV, not a financial or profit POV.
Of course you are. Everyone looking at the golden visa is
You donāt need to buy some expensive visa to invest in things
Is there another avenue/route to EU citizenship you would recommend?
I have US and Argentina currently.
Citizenship via Residency Investment should be a last resort.
Some lucky people can get easier residency depending on the country they were born in, and the Citizenships of their Parents and Grandparents.
If you disclose those people on the forum might have some great options.
For example, if you were born in Argentina, I believe you can live in Spain for 2 years and then apply for citizenship.
If you (like many people in this forum), must live in your home country (job, family, etc.) then Portugal is somewhat rare in terms of a Western Country that gives residency and citizenship without a 6 month/year stay requirement.
The other possibility I see a lot of is having a child born in a foreign country, that can open up options. Blogs like Sovereign Man have good newsletters which periodically explore different options and are great newsletters.
I have no by decent options, and if I did Spain i would have to live there for 2 years, which doesnāt not work for me at this time. The CBI via Portugal seems like my fastest and cheapest bet, unless I am missing something?
Hmm so why are websites like https://www.d7visa.com/portugal-startup-visa-hqa/ claiming āthe HQA Visa offers the same low minimum stay requirements as the Golden Visa.ā?
https://empoweredstartups.com/portugal-golden-visa-vs-hqa-visa-vs-d7-visa/ āMinimum In-Country Stay Requirement: Flexible ā Dependent on Business Activityā
Is that false advertising?
Or is the exception you mention very easy to get if you just say you have a fulltime job elsewhere? (In which case, is that also easy to get for the D7?)
This is definitely a false claim. Be careful who you trust 
Empowered Startups have told me it hasnāt been an issue so far at least (with their first participants recently reaching first renewal). But they also say that the program is best suited for those who plan to relocate to Portugal close to full time within 2-4 years.
Either way, itās a lot more fuzzy than the GV route.
@Andrew77 Yes, of course, there are multiple routes to EU citizenship besides the Portugal GV. Some explicit and official, some much more obscure and hidden.
Portugal GV is just one interesting option with a certain nice package of āprosā but it has some āconsā too, which any potential applicant need to assess for themselves. Whatās āproā for one may be the opposite for another.
Also, as others pointed out, you donāt necessarily need to spend exorbitant amounts of money on a GV, if some other less expensive route can be viable for you.
E.g. even if we totally exclude citizenship by descent, there are some options that literally cost a few hundred Eurosā¦
@tommigun thanks! can you give me some of these other cheaper options? I have been hitting the pavement on this for months now and am struggling to see another optionā¦
@Andrew77 As much as Iād like to help - you really need to do your own research, even if just on this forum.
There is tons of info. E.g. Portugal alone has a range of visas, D2, D3, D7, HQA etc. etc.
Every other EU country would have their own set.
A lot of info already on this forum. Other info on wider internet.
Andrew, you probably need to summarize your goals and requirements, e.g. weāve established youāre not willing to move for 2 years to Spain, or presumably anywhere else.
Youāve also established you want something cheap.
As far as EU citizenship goes, I believe PT is your best bet.
Malta is/was? the best for ultra-rich, PT was best for the lowest cost. Spain is fastest for those born in a Spanish Colony (or Puerto Rico), and Greece is probably the best for Permanent Residency [no stay requirement, but getting citizenship would be more like āretire there and spend 7 years thereā or maybe you can use that residency to live elsewhere and get citizenship?].
@michaelsmith I donāt think Greek residency based on their GV program allows anyone to live in another EU country based on their Greek permit (90-day stay rule would apply in other Schengen states).
Like you were eluding to, itās a program more suited to retirees or someone looking for visa-free travel in the Schengen Zone. From what I was reading, it is still a very popular scheme.