Colleagues, the fact that one lawyer submitted the application for naturalization based on GV applying date just means that he decided to play risky game on some info from sources. We have no idea what those sources are.
Time count is determibed by AIMA.
If you request a contagem de tempo now for someone with GV, AIMA will give you the count since first permit date. It is tested. Period. They stopped issuing contagem de tempo for about 1 month, later resumed but for GV for sure count is based on the old rules. I do not know what is the situation with other permits.
BUT contagem de tempo is not obligatory for application, so this lawyer apparently not submitted it because it shows less than 5 yr.
In that case, IRN will make a request to AIMA at stage 3. It will likely happen in a year. So the lawyer hopes that new regulations will be in place by that time and will support his case.
However, I have heard that with online application time is not predictable as we know cases where people passed to stage 4 in 6 months. So, if there are no regulations and AIMA replies with less than 5 yr, than what? This lawyer will sue them? It may take more than a year…
Good news, however, is that the new government starts solving immigration problems, so I think they should decide on this issue too pretty fast.
Time count is determined by AIMA.
However what IRN will make a request to AIMA at stage 3 is still not clear.
Before the new citizenship law, IRN would request AIMA to confirm the 5 years residency.
Now, with new citizenship law, will IRN make the same request? or IRN will make a request to AIMA about the first date when the applicant applied for long term residency? It is something to be confirmed in the future.
It really depends on what IRN will ask AIMA.
Time will tell.
It is better not to invent something ourselves. Nothing in the law says that the algorithm of naturalization processes is changed. The parliament just corrected the term “legal residency” for naturaluzation purposes. The request from IRN to AIMA is for contagem de tempo. Not for date, not for anything else.
Nothing is being invented here. The request by IRN to AIMA is always kept secretly. No one knows exactly what the IRN’s request is. Unless there is a screenshot or photo of the request is taken. Have you seen a request from IRN to AIMA? I bet not.
Hence anything can happen at the moment. IRN can request AIMA about 5 year residency or IRN can request AIMA to provide the first date of long term residency application. Or it can be both.
Well, I do not see anything secret here. They do not “reqest” any special info, they just send to AIMA data of the applicants to get the replies from AIMA. It is AIMA responsibility to track residencies, permits, legal entries etc. and so far it is AIMA who determines when you become the legal residency and how much time you accumulated. And nothing changes with the new law. IRN just has enough things to do not to add to them this mess with residencies. What to argue about?
And until AIMA startd issuing contagems de tempo with new dates nothing will change in IRN also. You could always check what whould be AIMA’s reply at the moment by requesting your contagem de tempo.
As said, contagem do tempo is issued by AIMA.
However, the request by IRN to AIMA is not revealed publicly. If you have a screenshoot or photo taken of the request and upload it here (as you also mentioned that you found it not secret😅), I will have to agree with you. If not, any conclusion at this moment is speculative (or I could say “inventive” as well). All possibilities can happen. Initial date of long term residency or 5 years residency or both. No one can confirm except IRN staffs (who send the request) and AIMA staffs (who receive the request).
My 5 year anniversary of initial submission is next year so have been discussing this issue with our lawyers. With the long delays at IRN, it’s possible the citizenship applicants now testing the new laws will still be waiting for a response next year. If we don’t have clarification from IRN by then, we will probably try our luck too. Worst case scenario is the application will be rejected and we lose 250 euros. Best case is we gain citizenship a year early.
Do they immediately renew your application upon submission then put it in the holding delay pool? Or does the delay come before they even look at it? If the latter, then you could submit next year, and by the time they review your application you’d probably have 5 years of residency card anyway?!
Wow,the government finds another way to earn €250 per application legitimately
That would be ideal but who knows? I feel like we’re all just throwing spaghetti at a wall now.
Cheap compared to the sunk costs for GV
Unfortunately, you can only apply for the citizenship once your 5 years are up and not before that. Even if they will take 2+ years to process your application.
My point is that you could apply (as some are already doing) 5 years from when you submitted the application - as per the new law. Even if this interpretation of the law turns out to be incorrect for GV, by the time they actually review your application you may have the 5 years from date of first residency card anyway. What would they do at that point - throw out your application?
Although I gather from others on here that the check that IRN makes with AIMA happens near the start of the process, within a couple of months.
One of my close friends applied for citizenship in early Feb 2023, and just got her birth certificate issued on 20 June 2024: 14.5 months total.
Birth certificate?
No, they will take contagem de tempo issued by AIMA and check two things: 1) if per that contagem de tempo you had 5 yrs at the time of applying and 2) if you have a valid residence permit at the time of checking
While on the second part, if missing, IRN will issue the letter with request for new additional documents, on the first - they will simply refuse yr application.
I would also suggest that if in the time of request they will see that reply depends on how treat the law, they will likely not reply until clarifications issued. They do not want legal suits and there is no deadlind for AIMA’s reply.
So worst case scenario is the following:
- the request sent before clarifications
- AIMA waits for clarifications and just do not reply to IRN
- Clarifications later not support yr case
- Application is refused
- You wait 6 month after refusal (as I remember it is obligatory period of waiting but not so sure)
- Submit new application
In general, you may lose more than 1 yr
The first portuguese doc you receive is a portuguese birth certificate.
Thank you. The citizenship process seems like such a distant thing that I haven’t researched the details very much. Still a couple of years away for me.
Yes, this is the procedure in Portugal and Spain. Once these two countries grant you nationality or citizenship, the government “claims” you as one of their own by re-issuing you a birth certificate (bc) in their format. Their bc looks like a normal bc and contains similar information as that of your country of birth with just a few additional info like when you registered for/granted citizenship.
This is similar to late registration of birth procedure in some other countries, e.g. when an infant was born at home without help of medical professionals and then parents forgot to register your birth with civil authorities or e.g. when one is born abroad and parents decide to register the birth at the embassy or consulate.
I heard too from friends who went through the procedure that this bc will be asked by the passport agency when applying for passports later on.