Well, it is exactly about golden visa program, because the change in the law was done specifically for people with manifestaĆ§Ć£o who lives here with almost legal status, with all other thing working like for legal residents - taxes, schools, clinics except this time counting. And the law is applied for them as intended for a about a year already.
Vice-versa it was always a grey area for GV program. And the law was not intended for them, really speaking.
I also even not start talking about that the new law was the last āgiftā of already dismissed parliament which was dominated by one party, and the new government is not very happy about that as well as the whole immigration policy. Thatās why they have already closed manifestaĆ§Ć£o part.
So in general, I think it is possible to go for European Court except that EU is both against the scheme for manifestaƧao and disapproves all kinds of golden visas and citizenship via them. We also do not see any single EU country I guess which includes waiting period into time for citizenship, if I am not mistaken, not taking about that entries on tourist visa and legalizing later. Which means that not all laws are easily protected at the EU level, especially if they differ significantly from the common framework.
I guess the new parliament could have easily changed back this law, but they decided to go by easier way and to cut amount of people for the future who may receive significant decrease of waiting time from that new law. GV is just a side effect of this law, and I guess holders will finally get this better time counting from one date or another. At the end, there are not many peoples with GV, it is better to give them early date than to fight with them. On the contrary, it is about 700-800 k people with manifestaĆ§Ć£o who get better treatment, but the law is very clear about them.
Contagem de tempo usually takes about 2 month (not 3-4), so the answer should be soon, right?
Always Grey? Where did you get this information from?
I got my contagem do tempo. Starting date is my online submission date. I asked the staff in that specific Aima branch that how they issued the certificates. They said that they forwarded all requests to Aima lisboa and from there aima lisboa concluded the starting date. When I picked up my CdT, they took out a folder which had several copies of my CdT. They gave me one, and they asked me to sign on one of other CdT. Therefore, there are always some copies to trace back.
To make sure that things match up, i also went to a different aima branch (200km far away from the first one) and I already requested a 2nd contagem do tempo in that aima branch. If two contagem do tempo show the same thing, it means the starting date all comes from aima headquarter in Lisbon. If two CdT have different dates, then I will have to bring it to court. No other choice!!!
Another interesting point: I went to aima to request a contagem do tempo with my expired card. Aima staffs said no problem with expired card to request CdT. However, after requesting 2-3 weeks, i received my renewed card. And later on, I received my contagem do tempo indicating my starting date and the number of my renewed card.
My initial submission April 2020.
Starting date from CdT: April 2020
First card issed: 09/2022
Renewed card issued: 12/2024 valid until 12/2026
Language certificate: PLA B2 (certificate has been being well kept since June 2023).
Citizenshipās submission: appointment in April 2025 already booked via Siga. I apply in person.
Criminal record and birth certifcate are being apostilled and translated and will arrive on time so that I will apply for citizenship at [5years +1]-th day.
It is good. Other people received from DUC date and some from first card date. But as I said it is easier not to differentiate for GV, so I would expect more and more people will receive it from the application date. And nope, CdTs in the past were not generated by central AIMA. even texts were different. But recently government said that it is time to stop different practices in different AIMA. All should have similar procedures.
By grey area Iāve meant in the view of what residency meant initially for citizenship law, how GV were added and what they wanted to do by that new law of time count. But the law in Portugal is statutory, so whatās written is written.
Yep, it is how it works. I have done the same in 2023. Requested before new card, while I was queueing for CdT Iāve got renewal and the new card was written in CdT even before I have received physical card.
New law came out in April 2024. If someone asked for CdT in June 2024, it could be a challenge for Aima. Even Aima at that time did not know exactly what the starting date was. Thatās why it takes some times for new law coming into practice. I would recommend that these people request again a new CdT.
I requested in December 2024 and I received in Feb 2025. So it is the fresh one. I also requested a 2nd CdT in Feb 2025 from different Aima branch and hope to get it soon.
The main reason is that now the starting point is the submission date and is used for citizenship. Therefore it makes sense that only Aima Headquarter has the right to issue this critical point. This is to avoid the worst scenario which 2 aima branches have two different starting dates. Then the court will have to tell that one aima is totally wrong (which is ridiculous).
In the past, no one cared much abour CdT because the delay that Aima caused was about 3-6 months and to request CdT it could take up to 6 months also. If now everybody receives card 6 months later than they should have received, then no one needs CdT. Therefore in the past people did not need it. Now things changed because of Aimaās behaviour. They delayed cards for years. Thatās why new law was born. If Aima respects the time line for 3-4 years, govt might revise the citizenshipās again.
3-4 months is my personal experience, and Iām now requesting CDT for the second time. Itās been 3 months since my first request and I still havenāt received it. A friend of mine requested it through a lawyer around the same time, and they havenāt received it either. In any case, whether itās 2 or 3 months, itās an unreasonably long time for such a simple document.
Are you asking this document to be sure that before applying for citizenship? I ask this because I read that this document is already provided electronically by AIMA.
It was never an obligatory document because in the past there was only one way to consider the āstarting pointā of the citizenshipās application i.e. the date written on the first card.
Now, there is new law. It means there is an alternative way to apply for citizenship in addition to the old fashion way i.e starting date is the date written on the first card. Under new law, CdT is āmust haveā document. Although IRN do not accept it as part of application, whoever takes advantage of the new citizenshipās law must obtain CdT beforehand. (Note that whoever uses the old fashion way - date of the first card - will never need CdT).
Why?
What happens if the citizenshipās application is refused by IRN under the reason that 5 years of residency has not been met? If you have the CdT in hand, you can obviously bring this to court as a solid ground to fight back. Therefore CdT is the ultimate protection/weapon you should have to fight against the demons.
Moreover, if you really want to attach this CdT as part of the citizenshipās application. There are some ways. If you apply via lawyer online, then your lawyer can add this CdT as a last page of one document. INR officer will see it for sure. Alternatively, if you apply by post/by person/via lawyer, you will get the Process Number for your citizenship application. Then, you write a letter to IRN indicating that this is your process number and in this envelop there is a certified copy of CdT and you have the original copy. Use the signature of recipient required mail, IRN must receive it. It is also a way to remind them that donāt even dare to disqualify the application for not having satisfied 5 years residency requirement.
You do not need a CdT before applying. Itās not used by IRN as they check directly with AIMA.
I do appreciate your point about having proof-in-hand if it gets rejected to have evidence.
However, if someone gets a CdT with the āwrongā start date of residency this should not stop them from applying for citizenship based on initial application payment date as there have been cases noted in this forum where the CdT showed the incorrect start date.
I doubt about cases with āwrongā start date in this forum. They posted one or two sentences saying the starting date is the biometric date. After that , they been ghostingā¦Hence I do not take it as a serious and honest feedback.
I also mentioned that although IRN do not use or accept the CdT as part of application, there are several ways we still can include it into our application (IRN might still not look at it. But hey, we do what we wanna do. They cannot disqualify us for this reason.
I agree. and each year I went to Portugal to make sure of these 7 days stay. If I donāt do this, they might have reason to block my application. Now at least before I actually move to Portugal, I couldāve know each area.
@live2learn do you know if you have to submit your citizenship application in person? Can your lawyer do it on your behalf? I donāt think Iāll be in Portugal when Iām eligible later this year, although perhaps I could do it at an embassy anyway
There three options to submit: online via lawyer; by post; or in person. Any one of these three works.
I personally choose to apply in person because i feel that if I pay the lawyer to submit, then I have to beg him/her to update the status of application all the times. I hate it. I feel like it is a ripped off. Paying the money then going begging is the worst feeling that you would never want to have.
Although I apply in person, I still pay lawyer 100Euros to check the application (no more than 100euros). I might even pay for 2 different lawyers to check first. Then I go apply in person.
Some advantages by apply in person are:
you choose the IRN to apply. If you want to take your luck from Porto, go applying there. If you prefer Braga, go ahead. You control your own destiny.
cost saving and better control of the updates.
āstep zeroā checking: if you apply in person and the IRN staffs look at your documents and say: āit is not enough, you lack this document/that documeny, then immediately you know you need to go home for better preparationā. If they say nothing, it means you pass the Step 0 and will be checked again by IRN experts for other steps.
If you do apply in person, then IRN gives you process number. Some IRN branches give you a paper of confirmation with process number in it on the same day.
Via lawyer, it is about a game of begging.
For cost, no doubt that applying in person is cheaper. Apply in person costs Zero Euros. Via lawyer it can be in between 300 - 3000 Euros depending on how naive you are.