Wait time now counts toward 5 year residency?

Residencies & citizenships Portugal Golden Visa
1265

Thank you@ Starts. I very much appreciate your response.

I hope you are correct that residing in Portugal without a visa or residence card still constitutes legal residence. Despacho n.º 12870-C/2021, de 31 de dezembro seems to say that it is. I am still concerned, however, given the following areas where Portuguese authorities in both public and private sectors are refusing to recognize the clear language of the Despacho:

The Despacho states the following:
"2nd - The documents that attest to the situation of the citizens referred to in the previous paragraph are the following:

a) The expression of interest or request document issued by the registration platforms in use at SEF, in cases of requests made under the terms of articles 88, 89 and 90-A of Law No. 23/2007 , of July 4, in its current wording;

b) The document proving the appointment at SEF or receipt proving the
request made in all other situations of processes pending at SEF, namely granting or renewal of residence permits, based on the general regime or exceptional regimes.

3rd - The documents referred to in the previous paragraph are considered valid for all public services, in particular for obtaining the user number, access to the National Health Service or other health care rights, obtaining the social security identification number, accessing social support benefits, entering into rental contracts, entering into employment contracts, opening bank accounts and contracting essential public services."

Yet, after 3 1/2 years, the SNS has multiple times refused to give me a permanent Numero de Udente or give me access to the National Health Service until I received my residence card; Novo Banco refuses to recognize my Portuguese address without a residence card; I cannot apply for a Portuguese drivers license because the results of the mandatory health exam for drivers over 70 cannot be entered into the SNS computer without a permanent Numero de Udente. If the despacho is indeed still in effect and my residence in Portugal is legal, all of these things should be easily accomplished, and yet they cannot be.

Still, I hope that you are correct and that, assuming my GV application is eventually approved, I will be able to at least attempt to apply for nationality after 5 years from the date I moved even if the earlier application date does not start the clock.

Once again, obrigada for your helpful response.

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1266

I’m not sure where you live, but at the Centro de Saúde near me (Seixal), I was able to get a real, permanent utente number without the residence card in hand.

I made an appointment with them for the utente, which supposedly I was supposed to bring the residence card to.

When I actually showed up I instead explained the situation, showed them an Atestado de Residencia, a printout of the SEF portal showing the pending application, and a printout of a Portuguese newspaper article talking about the GV delays.

The staff seemed initially hesitant, but after talking with each other, and a bit of a conversation with me in Portuguese, they issued it without any further fuss.

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1267

I live in Alcobaca and have been turned down for a permanent Numero de Udente 3 times. On my second visit to make the request and with all of the paperwork, the clerk accepted my application, only to phone me two days later with apologies that her superiors rejected the application. Our Centro de Saude is adament: no numero without a Carta de Residencia. I am delighted that your centro made the health system available to you, but mine will not do so.

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1268

Sounds like you are a prime candidate for an urgent lawsuit on AIMA: you live in PT and need the card to get healthcare.

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1269

Maxine you might have better luck applying by email to a district office, not a local Centro de Saúde. I applied with Lisbon district SNS office by email back in 2022. At that time I already had my residency card but my spouse did not, but they still issued numbers for both of us. When we went to a local Centro de Saúde, they wouldn’t process it in person but gave us an email address to send the application. Include name, date of birth, email, phone, NIF, and a copy of the proof of your pending residency application. Just note, it took several weeks to get a response, but the estimated time was noted on an auto-reply that we got when we sent it. The email addresses for applications are on this page, including your district of Leiria. I’m not certain it will work - I applied during Covid so a lot of things were by email that are now moving back to in-person - but worth a try given you’ve run out of other options.

1270

Has it been discussed whether a citizenship application can be filed without a biometric/residence card?
2021 applicants here, unable to update latest documents and no biometric appointment in sight. Messed up in 2023 by ignoring an email inviting us to book appointments.
Application status is ‘Application accepted’

1271

https://diariodarepublica.pt/dr/legislacao-consolidada/lei/1981-34536975

Artigo 15.º
Residência
4 - Para os efeitos de contagem de prazos de residência legal previstos na presente lei, considera-se igualmente o tempo decorrido desde o momento em que foi requerida a autorização de residência temporária, desde que a mesma venha a ser deferida.

Translation:

For the purposes of counting legal residence periods under this law, the time elapsed since the temporary residence permit was applied for is also taken into account, provided that it is granted.

If the card isn’t granted, the wait time doesn’t count yet.

1272

I said the same thing to the language school. Why spend US$6k on a class if I don’t even know whether it’ll be usable for citizenship?

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1273

Well, friends, for the 4th time I was denied access to SNS services, even after bringing with me a copy of Despacho n.º 12870-C/2021, de 31 de dezembro and pointing out that the law clearly states that while waiting for the visa process to be completed, I am" entitled to access to the National Health Service or other healthcare rights" and all other documentation: ARI application, payment of the initial fee, completing of a biometric appointment, a lease and up to date atestado. I still have a temporary numero de udente which I rereceived three years ago to qualify for a covid booster, but was told then and told 4 times since by the SNS at two different Centro de Saudes that I could not use it for anything else. Not for assignment of a family physician, not for the physical exam required for a Portuguese driving license, not for reduced charges at public clinics or hospitals or at the pharmacy, or ANYTHING other than covid boosters until I receive a residence card- for which I have been waiting 3 1/2 years.
What is the value of a law stating that you are entitled to a service if the people who supply the service have been told by their supervisors that they may not provide it?

I am pleased that some people in different regions of Portugal have been able to navigate this maze, but here on the Silver Coast, the managers of the SNS have been adamant. No residence card, no health services other than Covid shots.

My next move is to file a complaint with the Provedor de Justicia , although I have little hope that it will produce a positive result.

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1274

This is certainly the type of situation that should be resolved through an urgent court case - you applied many years ago, live in PT and are being denied services you are entitled to under law.
I’m sorry this is happening to you.

1275

We continue to read reports on this thread of people who filed lawsuits, but despite positive results from the Courts are still waiting for approval. The cost of a lawsuit (1500-2500 euros depending on the law firm) doesn’t sound like a good investment given the huge court backlog in addition to the more than 300 euros per month for the private insurance I am required to maintain. The high cost is due to age and the limited number of companies that will insure people over 70.

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1276

Have you tried contacting the non profits to help immigrants in your area like CLAIM?

1277

Thank you for the suggestion.

CLAIM was absorbed into AIMA when AIMA was established. The CLAIM website states that because of this change their website information is out of date and they have requested that AIMA provide an update. I couldn’t find one.

Are you aware of other organizations that provide a similar service?

1278

Perhaps ask on the Americans and Friends PT facebook group.

1279

GV will continue, may even be improved.
Still no clarity on the impact for current holders, but seems to be moving in the right direction ??

Worth a quick read

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1280

A new type of NHR just for ARI/PGV investors?
Great!

Forcing ARI/PGV investors to wait longer to apply for citizenship?
Not so great…

Forcing ARI/PGV investors to move to Portugal to ever receive citizenship?
Not what we signed up for…

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1281

How do you prove the initial golden visa submission date for citizenship application?

Has the “contagem do tempo” certificate been updated to implement the new law?

1282

See this thread: Contagem de Tempo

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1283

“Said Amaro. He said AIMA is working on clearing a backlog of almost 45,000 golden visas applications currently awaiting review.

“We expect that by the end of the year this process will be largely taken care of,” he added.”

:ok_hand: I just need some hope.

1284

What I don’t understand is how can one meet the minimal stay requirements for the D7 Visa if they don’t have a residency card and therefore can only stay 90/180 days. Is that counted against you, since it’s impossible to stay either 6 consecutive months/8 total?