Please familiarise yourself with “Squatter laws” in France before plunging into this adventure. Though they are improving, they are still quite onerous towards the owners.
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Because my family already have our cards. We have no plans to move to PT in the short-term. It remains the only way to get an EU passport without actually moving there. My children are young enough that they won’t age out. I do believe that we will ultimately get passports from it - in fact I think it likely the changes will reduce the workload of IRN and shortern the citizenship application timeframe by the time we apply.
Having said that, I am minded to sue, specifically in relation to the state’s failure to adhere to the initial processing timeline, which accounts for around 30-40% of the “extra” time.
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I’m in the relatively fortunate position of having purchased a house in late 2021 to qualify for the GV, so going forward GV renewals will be much less expensive since GV real estate investors are getting converted to D2 for renewals. I finally got my first temporary residency card in May this year. If by some miracle PT government inaction continues through November 2026 I will be eligible to apply then, but I don’t expect that to happen. I made the decision to move to Portugal last year and declared my house here to be my domicile last December to snag the NHR program before it disappeared. One thing for US persons in the NHR tax regime to consider is that the minute they obtain PT citizenship the favorable tax treatment for US sourced capital gains goes away. I didn’t realize that until last year. So as much as I want the passport I will be better off from a tax perspective.
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I wouldn’t have entered into the programme in the first place even when things looked rosy if not for the fact that my current passport does not enable easy travel to most countries on the planet. So as long as Portuguese passport eventually is a realistic prospect if not for me then for my children, I will hang in there. If passport is no longer on the horizon, do let me know.
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I hate to throw a firebomb in here, but…
This thread is starting to more or less provide ammo to chega/PSD - sure, they’re pissing off some GVers, some will walk away, but … lots of people are going to hang with it anyway because they’re already stuck-in and there aren’t screamingly better alternatives.
Sure they’re endangering future benefits from the program, but maybe they figure that the juice isn’t worth the squeeze any more - and they’re probably betting a lot of people will still keep applying “just” for PR - there are other programs, sure, it’s more competitive, but… and they have other fish to fry and agendas to address and there’s tradeoffs to everything.
The reality is that most people most of the time aren’t especially well informed and are acting on assumptions and advertising. You see it everywhere, even here - new people coming in saying “I was told by <your favorite marketer/lawyer>” well after having already committed. What, Portugal has become a poor place for investment? Sure it’s going to hurt some at the margins, but enough people will believe the spew we see in TPN and the like and believe it. Same logic as we see from any number of other sources - say something loud enough long enough and people will start to believe it.
The program will roll on. Without a few of us perhaps.
Just another casualty of the Fourth Turning.
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Even though I cannot liquidate my investment (hotel project), I will not continue with my biometrics appointment. It is almost certain that we would have to invest tens of thousands of Euros more for a possible citizenship in another 12–15 years.
Laws might change again, and the situation could get even worse.
Plus, it doesn’t make sense to pay another cent to an institution that has deliberately cheated the people who trusted them.
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I am just curious what does “relatively young enough” equate to in figures to still make it worth staying the PGV program? Are we talking about 40s? By the time someone in this age qualifies for citizenship, they would be in their mid to late 50s.
It certainly might be “ammo to Chega/PSD” to an extent, but then we are here to discuss our reasons to stay in the GV programme. There is a separate thread for those willing to quit.
I am also quite certain that if the Nationality Law will pass anywhere close to its original form, it will trigger both loud outcry from the GV community, legal challenges (I would consider one), and cancellations of many future investments. Just as you say, Chega/PSD probably believe that few financial hits to GV programme may be a necessary component to deprive hundreds of thousands of their right to naturalise within five years as originally promised. The voters demand it, and they are bound to respond accordingly. We (the GVers) can try to influence their decisions with our reasoning. We can also agonise over their decisions, but ultimately we would need to make personal choices whether to stay or quit should the “full rug pull” occur.
And so, let’s discuss our reasons freely and not dwell obsessively over their potential misuse.
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Exactly. But I don’t plan to leave my current country for >10 / 15 years. Then the next phase of my life may be in Europe. My kids should be able to get it (they’re still young - the oldest may need to apply as an adult though).
Just because I’m staying in the program, doesn’t mean I’m not planning to sue.
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Agreed. To be clear, I wasn’t intending to discourage discussion at all; it was more in the way of an observation, e.g. lots of people are going to end up staying in the program anyway.
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F■■■ this, I’m dropping mine. Switching to Spain.
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Emigration is a strategic decision, and many of us did not take it lightly. In our case, it took a couple of years of planning, liquidating our U.S. real estate, and a fairly substantial realignment of our investments. It is hard to just change the course overnight, despite the obvious deterioration of the GV programme and continual, intentional disregard by the Portuguese government of their promises. Unfortunately, staying in the game became a delicate balancing act rather than certain decision it was in 2020, but here we are.
Wishing everyone very Joyful Holidays and a Happy New Year, filled with renewed optimism for the positive outcome of the latest political and legislative turmoil in Portugal!
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Which scheme or program in Spain? Are you referring to the Non-Lucrative Visa (NLV)?
my passport is really shit, when i say really shit, i mean i can’t even go to most third world countries without visa, so i am doing it for the passport, really no other better option without moving to those places.
i invested in open fund IMGA Acores and its done extremely well, 350k invested in Dec 2021 is worth around 600k now. We travel a fair bit so 14 days every 2 years in portugal isn’t a problem. I hate all the renewal fees and attorneys fees but at the end if we get passport even in 10 years its still worth it.
Also, kids are super young 9 and new born so by the time they get it, it will be university age and if they want to study in Europe that might come in handy.
If it gets worse, i can always pull out the investment and just put it in bitcoin within a week. I do feel “Rug Pulled” but do not feel “Trapped” or sunk cost falacy isnt’ at play here.
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The beauty of open-ended liquid funds!
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PE, the trap for new millionaires
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For anyone coming from a LatAm country covered by the treaty with Spain, 2 years to Spain passport is a no brainier, since Spain has a carve-out to the “no dual citizenship” rule for its former colonies.
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Not rly.
Since spain has a worldwide wealth tax that taxes on your net worth every year on a scale up (the higher your net worth the hifher the % tax)
I bet they didnt disclose that.
I had to dig that up btw.
It for poor people, not for GV ppl.
Btw my sister in law who is a philippine national has been there since 2020. Its almost 2026, havent heard a peep from her since 2020…
So just bec it says 2 years for former colonies dont mean it 2 gears.
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This is valid and many times not a consideration. The truth is PT GV is likely still the best EU option even with less attractive terms for now (im sure eastern EU states GV programs will end up being more attractive but I dont see that in the near term)