Look, I certainly hope the TC grandfathers us, if it does I’ll be applying for naturalization in 6 months and not worrying about Bulgaria or Romania or whatever.
My point is these programs are likely correlated, if the EU puts pressure on them to fall, they will likely fall together. You won’t be able to run from one failing program to another.
And if you have to put in the physical presence, Romania’s tax situation is much more favorable than Portugal’s.
Most language difficulty rankings (for English speakers) actually put Portuguese and Romanian on the same easy level. Unless you already speak Spanish, in which case Portuguese is probably closer, but Romanian is still not that distant since it is a Latin language.
Bulgarian though is much harder because it’s a Slavic language.
In a way, this is all self-balancing. If Romania can retain enough self-determination in the face of attempted EU overreach, that gives me hope for a future where member states retain a reasonable amount of policymaking sovereignty.
But if the EU is really able to exercise such tyranny, I’d rather not be an EU citizen anyway… in that case, what’s coming is mass surveillance, chat control, and tax nightmares for all.
@GottaGetOut Richard, something to double check as you plan the timing. In several Portuguese GV funds I’ve reviewed, the Annual Information Statement did not actually support long term capital gain treatment because of underlying items that are not visible in the surface reporting. Your fund may be different, but it’s worth asking your CPA to confirm.
That’s interesting. I don’t fully understand it, but assume Optimize generates capital gains and losses during the year by buying and selling stocks/bonds and earning interest/dividends. I’d have to report these gains to the IRS in any event. However, I’m hoping the bulk of the gains in the current market run-up qualify as long-term gains in that Optimize did not buy or sell them during the year.
In a previous post, someone wrote for Optimize: “realized capital gains and ordinary income (which is reduced by their management fee) were each approx. 3.5-4% of investment capital.” If that holds true for 2025, I might have 28k in ST gains? Hopefully the rest will be LT.
@GottaGetOut Richard, your instincts about what the fund realizes during the year are accurate in general terms. For U.S. reporting, the key question is whether the PFIC Annual Information Statement actually supports long term capital gain treatment under a valid QEF election. That depends on specific detail in the AIS, including items that are not visible in the performance summary.
I haven’t seen an AIS from a Portugal residency fund that provides the level of detail required under Treas. Reg. 1.1295-1(g), although your fund may be different. A tax professional can confirm by reviewing the PFIC reporting that was issued for the prior year.
The search for funds that offer golden visas is accelerating even further.
Investment fund management companies report a strong appetite for golden visas this year, especially from Americans. “The golden visa program (…) has been an invaluable source of investment for Portugal. There has been very high demand, especially from Americans,” points out Pedro Lino, CEO of Optimize Investment Partners , the second largest fund in the country. The manager expects to end the year with €360 million under management, of which 600 out of 1,100 investors are golden visa holders.
I am out. Like everyone before me I thought my timing was perfect , but unfortunately not. Money is on its way back to me and lawyer has been informed that I am not coming to my biometrics appointment. Searching for my new Plan B now. I appreciate all of the wonderful constructive input folks have provided here over the years. Best of luck to you all.
I am due to speak to my lawyer Monday to discuss ramifications of backing out now. They will have great arguments for staying and I am obviously easily convinced or I wouldn’t be here now. Trying to get my facts straight, although for me it’s also an emotional decision. Our fund is closed, so I’m not sure what happens with the bank etc. if we drop our GV app.
I am out too. I asked my closed end fund what their plan is, and they said they are still analyzing the situation but they likely would let people redeem at the end of the normal period if they want to pull out, and will consider extending for people that want to stay in it. For me the analysis is pretty simple – once I decided that waiting 10+ year was not something that I was interested in, it became a “good money chasing bad money” equation. Renewal fees, travel for family of four to spend 2 weeks in Portugal (expensive and also hard to coordinate with young adult kids), etc. So I will just let the funds play out and take back my money when I can. Our funds are “up” (on paper) about 8% per year which is not the end of the world. If the entire 10 year regime change is struck down for people already in the process, I would stay in it, but otherwise, I’m out too.
Hi Sheri,
Hard to pinpoint one thing. We had originally planned on doing passive income visa in a few years, but decided if we could get second passports for kids it would be worth it to do GV and accelerate. I feel like for the kids that option is more or less gone, will be gone or won’t be defined in my lifetime.
The disingenuous massive biometrics dump with the promise of family appointments in a week or two that hasn’t happened yet, as far as I know, feels like a way to lock me into the process regardless of when or if the family ever get appointments.
The fees from our “investment”, renewals and lawyers will easily top 6 figures over the remainder of the process as well. So given there are many residency programs available around the world it just feels like there are better and faster options.
A closed end fund or being later in the process would have probably changed my calculus, but the bar for me to exit is low and the spent money won’t be recovered. I just looked at what I originally signed up for and what they are promising now is more expensive for something diminished in value to me.
That said I hope everyone gets grandfathered in and your processes go smoothly.
Yes, that’s the precondition for me to stay in. In April, I would not have started my application with the present conditions, so I will not continue it now. If, by some miracle, they revert to the previous conditions, then fine. If not, bye Portugal. I’ll put my investment elsewhere.
I see your point, but I personally wouldn’t characterize it that way.
Many immigration law firms, investment funds and others have their livelihoods tied up in Portugal’s golden visa program. It makes sense they will continue to sell the product, deemphasizing the fact that they are selling an inferior product for a lot more money.
However, I’m certain these GV service providers are very concerned about the demise of the program and how it will affect their businesses.
This is a very bad look for the industry, the program and the funds. Everyone trying to sweep what has happened under the rug makes the whole thing look more scammy.
“They still achieve permanent residency after five years, including their family members, and redeem their investment at the end of the five-year period” - erm, that 5 years is after waiting perhaps 3-5 years just to get a temp residency.
“this path continues to lead to citizenship, but now it just requires a longer timeframe.” - oh is that all? Just another 5 years of my life and sub-par returns?
, but unfortunately not. Money is on its way back to me and lawyer has been informed that I am not coming to my biometrics appointment. Searching for my new Plan B now. I appreciate all of the wonderful constructive input folks have provided here over the years. Best of luck to you all.
