For what itās worth, i spent at least 12 hours last weekend reading through the 700+ threads of info. It really, really helped me peel this onion in short order. I am sure a lot of others who take the time to digest it. So, with that, kudos to you.
Itās not clear to me that using health coverage as an argument for PT GV is necessarily one that makes sense. You have some amount of costs either way, and thatās assuming of course that you find .pt healthcare to be sufficient, which it may not be. Ex. my wife is disabled and uses prosthetics. Will .pt healthcare be sufficient? Are there good PTs and prosthetists? Will the available insurance pay the costs or am I out of pocket entirely? Oh and donāt forget that costs accelerate as you get older - the price you pay now isnāt necessarily the price you will pay in 10 years. Plus thereās medicare depending on your age.
I have fantastic gold plated health insurance paid for by my beneficient employer and access to Weill Cornell and Columbia Med and HSS and Sloan-Kettering and all the top prosthetics. Can I get those in .pt? How good are the docs and facilities? Everything is probably a step down. But I contemplate it anyway because of the price I am paying in lifestyle to keep all that. We downchecked Costa Rica because it was likely a step too far - not in the general sense, CIMA and Clinica Biblica are good institutions, but prosthetics are kind of an odd specialty and sadly the US is the leader by far here because of Afghanistan (IEDs being particularly adept at creating amputees) and the money that the VA has poured into the industry here as a result.
Cost of living is arguably lower in .pt. Arguably. If your lifestyle adjusts to costs. Itās like Costa Rica - theoretically itās cheaper, but not if you live your western lifestyle. Any house I want is > 400k. Gas is > $7/gal. Power is $0.32/kwh. Not a ton of cost savings there.
I think I am with MM here, you can spend a ton of time attempting to rationalize the costs but itās not necessarily likely to work out; if you are doing it at all to this detail, itās likely your motivations are only about so strong, and youāre still likely only at the tip of the iceberg in terms of the entire process. Wait til you have to actually deal with Portuguese lawyers and SEF and Customs and everything else. You could easily end up thinking āgeez, all this money, AND all this bullsh*t, what the *Y&& am I doing?ā And then thereās actually living there. Itās one thing to be there on a D7, you get there, itās annoying, but you cope and maybe you head back. If youāre there having paid 500k for the privilege, letās face it, it can affect your perspective whether you admit it or not. Now granted both of you are Indian (I gather) and so maybe that doesnāt bother you so much; Iām writing in a very general sense for the benefit of other readers like @Rue. (My wife has spent significant time in India over the years in multi-month chunks, getting visas and renting apartments and living in the society not just doing the tourist thing, and weāve been in Samara for significant periods over the years, so we do have a perspective on inefficiency and bureaucracy, even if itās just to the knowledge that you end up paying a fixer in order to get anything done knowing youāre paying vig because youāll Just Never Get It.)
I think most people get the GV because they want the EU passport for relatively intangible reasons like political risks or lifestyle or culture or food (NYC has great high end food but Iād argue the cuisine is better elsewhere, NYC food culture just misses the point to me versus a roasted whole snapper at some tiny restaurant seaside in Setubal) and any cost savings are speculative.
I get wanting to attempt to quantify costs to help put a cost on the whole affair, but itās really unclear to me that you can do so effectively and I think thatās @anon16151502 's point. Those of us who are doing so - I think - are willing to bet we lose a fair bit of our investment as if we were paying the cost up front to the tune of 200-300k, and anything we make is just bonus. Ok, I really am hopeful that I wonāt lose my shirt and that PE really isnāt a terrible bet - looking at folks like Kigeni and Oxy and Explorer, youāre seeing track records of ~2 MOIC which while not lighting the world on fire - US PE youāre hoping for 2.5-3 I think - is really is pretty good as long as you donāt mind the volatility and the fact that you can forget about attempting to truly quantify the value of your investment for 6-7 years. (The real estate funds, itās somewhat easier.) But Iāve also accepted I can lose my shirt. I donāt like it, but I might die next week too, and itās merely a significant dent to me, not my life savings. And I just cannot bring myself to put money into the S&P, however idiotic this has been.
And even so, I still wonder if itās worth it versus just D7 at some point later when I know Iām ready to go, or simply going to Costa Rica. All Iām really doing is starting the clock now versus later, on the off bet that the world might change and even D7 might just go away entirely. Itās a pricey luxury. You can get a deal on business class but itās still a lot more than economy. 
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Itās interesting to see how everyone rationalises their decisions on the GV. If anyone is looking at this to make money, I think itās never going to be what you want. Itās a pathway into permanent residency in the EU.
When we bought our property in Costa Rica we knew that we werenāt doing it for traditional investment purposes. The āinvestment returnā was the quality of life it afforded us. I see Portugal and Europe the same way. If I stay financially neutral with the ā¬350k, more or less, and we gain permanent residency for our children, itās an investment well made.
We have lived in several countries in Europe over the last few years and the quality of life is what we are investing in.
As they say in Costa Ricaā¦Pura Vida.
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Frankly, we will be happy if we preserve our capital. If we make enough from the investment to cover the GV costs, even better. More than that? An added bonus.
I agree that it is interesting to see the various perspectives expressed here. This forum and website is an eye-opener for anyone considering the GV. The scheme is clearly not for everyone, and youāve got to believe that the interactions that are occurring on these forums helps folks reach the decision that is right for them.
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Yes, agree 100%
@jb4422 Jeff, it is not just as simple as asking oneself the question if PT healthcare is going to be sufficient. I urge you to read my post carefully once again. My predicament is somewhat different - it pertains to finding an economically viable solution to find healthcare across three countries and PT happens to be just one of them. Buying separate healthcare is not cost efficient or prudent. Just as buying private healthcare in US (leading up to medicare starting at 65) is definitely not cost efficient.
Just as your wife requires prosthetics, so does my wife have a need for healthcare due to an auto-immune condition that has no known reasons and no known cures. So healthcare (affordability and quality) is of utmost importance. Regarding costs accelerating, I am fully aware and have factored in inflation costs and an annual increase in cost of care. You have got to acknowledge that a guy who goes into in-depth quantitative analysis wouldnāt overlook to factor in inflation and industry cost increases on an annual basis, right??!! Once again, if you read my previous post, you will know that I am factoring these costs for 10 years after which I will have access to medicare, albeit medicare is only available as coverage within US borders just as PT healthcare (public option) is available only within PT borders.
I have read enough and have talked to many PT residents to understand that PT healthcare is probably on par with US healthcare if not better so I donāt think either of our wives will be taking a step down. I am making this statement based also on world healthcare ratings found here:
1)https://worldpopulationreview.com/en/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
2)World Health Organization ranking of health systems in 2000 - Wikipedia
In both hyperlinks above, PT is at #12 and US is at #37.
However, this is contextual for coverage within PT only and I am trying to solve an issue impacting me and my wife domiciled across 3 countries.
Agree on US being a leader in certain areas, as are France and Germany in certain others. VA is my customer so I know the story here real well around their funding for prosthetics and PTSD.
Cost of living has been deeply studied by me as well. I have actually studied COL index for the following expat/retirement destinations across a variety of factors: US vs Costa Rica (you are aware of this), Panama, Ecuador (we took a field trip there already to Cuenca), Portugal, Thailand, India (we are originally from there), New Zealand, Iceland. These are the only countries that caught our imagination and attention. They all have their pros and cons that impact our specific needs.
BTW, my motivations for looking at PT are stronger than you realize cause I am already deep into the analytical process, something many on such community forums may not be inclined to do. Why? Cause I believe the devil is in the details. And I for one donāt have the luxury of losing a sizeable amount of my savings that I may end up losing in PT (or any other GV type offer in another country) without walking in with my eyes open.
Yes, my wife and I come originally from India, which you gathered correctly. But after living in the US for the last 32 years, it makes us Indian-American and not just Indian. My wife and I are more well-versed with bureaucracy than most born and raised in the West. So I am quite prepared to deal with some of the same in PT. One hasnāt experienced bureaucracy until one lives in some third world countries where throwing money at an issue is not an option at all. You mentioned Samara (not sure if you meant Russia or Costa Rica)ā¦we have experienced some of the remotest places in India, Nepal and Egypt, all after being pampered with the efficiencies and customer service focus found in the US.
I donāt know why others may find the GV route more amenable. I agree that the EU passport makes it very attractive but for US citizens that attraction is relatively less, given that we can travel visa free to any number of Schengen countries not to exceed 90 days at a time. Given all the political storms the US has had to weather in the last 4 years, bureaucracy and other challenges are nowhere remotely close to the ones experienced in certain countries in Africa, Middle East and Asia.
And just as a whole roasted snapper in Setubal can be a cuisine experience way better than NYCās high end eateries, the same way I can personally attest that any street food gastronomical experience in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and India would far outweigh the experience in Setubal. Again, this is very contextualā¦and if you saw the sanitation conditions (or lack thereof) in some of the street food vending areas, youād run a mile away in the opposite direction.
Given the lack of being able to quantity the entire investment risk scenario end-to-end, I am also arriving to the conclusion that to some extent that it will be a leap of faith. Yes, I am resigned to the fact that I may end up losing much on my invested $420K but that is the price we pay. And if I get some or much of that investment back after 6-7 years, that would be gravy. However, if in the process, I die next week, then āgame overā! Your statement that āā¦itās merely a significant dent to me, not my life savingsā¦ā says a lot about your motivation with the GV process. Obviously, for me itās more than just a dent.
I am certain the world will not change that significantly in my lifetime (except maybe global warming caused changes). The GV investment is a pricey luxury. I would be willing to pay premium over economy and get onto business class assuming there was some level of guarantee that my investment and I would āarrive safelyā on the other side. Until then I do carry some reservations. 
@msheth if you are concerned about healthcare across multiple countries, I can point you to the provider we use. It is an expat policy that covers us globally. Itās private insurance that costs us ā¬700 for a family of 4 per month. Sounds crazy expensive to some until you look at what your US insurance policy might cost you. And it follows us globally and works in almost every country in the world.
We spend part of our time in Costa Rica, Germany and the U.K. with an occasional trip to the US. It covers us everywhere without having to ever tweak it or call for additional coverage.
Appreciate the offer but why not just say the provider in your reply?
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Exactly. Iām not trying to advertise. Just willing to share what we do for expat coverage.
I mean if true makes sense but Iāve seen other posts with the companyās names for health or travelerās insurance recently. And if itās a rule maybe say in post per Nomadgate rules can only share company name if you PM me. Itās all very confusing to most of us Readers. Not blaming the poster maybe the rules need better transparency.
Sorry, that was probably me talking about specific travel insurance. I didnāt realize it might be against the rules. My apologies.
Thatās fair. I saw that you were focused on healthcare and the dollars, but the importance of it to you wasnāt nearly so clear to me, or at least I glossed over it.
I freely admit to being fairly hand-wavey about the healthcare aspects. Iām more or less assuming that Iāll have to eat the healthcare costs one way or the other. Iām kind of concerned about pre-existing condition clauses, but for me at least the worst case is that I have to buy the prosthetics myself and thatās not really THAT bad - unless I have to pay rack rate in the US. Iām also assuming that policies from firms like Bupa and Cigna Global will cover what I need - and if I canāt make it work, I just roll with it by either coping with the US system or hunkering in PT. Your situation definitely requires a more detailed approach.
It is hard to compare costs from one person to another, so I couldnāt really tell what all factored in your choices. From my POV, your 280k for 10 years is high. But policies have different costs for different limits and vary state to state too, and different if youāre employer/employee vs self-employed, and then family vs not.
I guess the summary of all my long-windedness remains though, itās unclear to me that PT GV is a cost-effective path to solving oneās healthcare issues or indeed any issues, it doesnāt really survive any detailed cost analysis well, and thereās a bunch of as you say leap-of-faith.
I do respect your situation and hopefully you understand weāre just throwing views back and forth here.
Itās all good Jeff. No issues. Thanks for sharing your insights. I learn something new everyday from all the messages on this forum. The bottom lineā¦I am also getting closer to making a decision regarding PT-GV after resigning to the fact that over the next 10 years horizon (until Medicare kicks in), my wife and I will have to eat the medical insurance costs.
**Bupa is on my radar.
**@joseph.c.lapierre will share his contact for $700/family of 4 premium. Just hope it isnāt travel insurance as I am looking for international healthcare insurance.
**Allianz is another option.
I donāt think I am violating any rules of posting company names here on this channel when they are all public website links available via Google search.
One thingās for sure: I will be keeping a close eye on posts on this channel so as to learn more about other issues we may all face during our respective GV journeys. So please keep sharing.
Havenāt checked in for 7 days and see that a lot can happen on here in that time!
Iāve continued with my research by speaking to fund managers, fund advisors, and some really good lawyers to collect information so that it can be presented via a centralized platform.
Thanks to those of you whoāve responded to my original post and/or commented on the topic since I was last here.
@wkb Iām glad you share the perspective I brought up last week
I also believe that investors should make money from their Golden Visa investments and I can assure you that Iāve seen many do so through real estate over the last few years.
However, @jb4422 rightly points out that many investors are focused on capital preservation and would be happy to get back 350k + inflation after the GV period is up.
Iām going to continue collecting and centralizing the GV Fund info and I hope it will become a useful resource in the near future.
In the meantime, if anyone prefers the 350K real estate route then please feel free to reach out to me. I see there are several people on this thread who are leaning that way and we could probably help you out at (undisclosed company name).
P.s. There are loads of decent medical insurance companies out there. I canāt post them here but to give you some context; the cost of my personal UK insurance before I moved to Lisbon is equal to at least 4 staff members through my companyās medical insurance. I can understand why itās such an attractive element for many people.
Do you know any company actually really buy back from investor?
I saw many companies offer this, but did not see any investor prove it
Or fund is safer than real estate? Please suggest
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@Gaogao Iām aware that some developers are offering guaranteed buybacks but, personally, I have never seen or heard of one being actioned. However, that may be because the 5-year buyback triggers have not yet been reached.
Regarding funds vs real estate; I believe both are safe if chosen well. If you would like further advice or assistance please feel free to reach out via Verified user: Tariq El-Asad ā Nomad Gate
Hi, has anyone tried investing in an open fund like IMGA or BPI as an option? I was looking into this but a fund manager said that open-ended funds were non -compliant due to changes in Portugal regulations recently. Any thoughts?
Hello Rox, When you say recently, how recent was it ?
As far as I know there are a handful of folks here that have applied with open ended funds IMGA and BPI.
Also who was the fund manager and the fund, if I may ask.
Could you please post some references or links ?
I am going with IMGA. My attorney tells me the important factor is how long YOU hold the investment and not how long it holds on to you. Iāve had others try to talk me out of it for other reasons but I felt it was more about not going with an investment such person represented. As others have pointed out, there are other GV folks who have gone this way and received their visa. BTW, I tried to get more info on BP but rep couldnāt answer my questions about whether they support Americans and our tax situation. Tried several times and he never got me an answer.
Thank you for that insight. I just recently got in contact with BPI so weāll see about that.
I was actually thinking on the same lines because there was some vested interest on the part of the fund manager.