Sure, you never know what your lawyers look at sometimes ))
I suggest you speak to them and also I suggest you type the letter for them so the only thing for then left to do is sign.
If you donât speak/write Portuguese yet then use DeepL as it has the European Portuguese option unlike Google Translate.
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I think it is Decree-Law No. 90/2022.
It is discussed on the SEF website here under the FAQ Question 7: BREXIT
"Yes. According to Decree-Law No. 90/2022, of December 30, visas and permits concerning the stay of foreign nationals in the national territory which have expired after December 30th (or 15 previously days) are accepted until 31st December 2023.
The permits and visas regarding the stay in the national territory are still accepted under the same terms after 31st December 2023, as long as their holder submits supporting evidence that he already has an appointment for the corresponding renewal."
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They refer to âappointment for the corresponding renewalâ, thatâs why Dmitryâs attorney probably insists that despacho is for renewals.
Anyway I donât understand what they actually mean saying
âThe permits and visas regarding the stay in the national territory are still accepted under the same terms after 31st December 2023, as long as their holder submits supporting evidence that he already has an appointment for the corresponding renewalâ.
Letâs assume I entered with Schengen visa thatâs ending in September 2023 and Iâm on last stage of GV (waiting for final approval). As far as I understand Iâm OK to stay till the end of 2023 with no questions. And what about 2024? Have I to apply for Schengen visa extension or SEF recibo is my proof that I have âan appointment for the corresponding renewalâ.
Thanks for the link, @barbri. Thatâs the renewal law, and itâs different as there is nothing to renew yet.
They refer to âappointment for the corresponding renewalâ, thatâs why Dmitryâs attorney probably insists that despacho is for renewals.
Anyway I donât understand what they actually mean saying
âThe permits and visas regarding the stay in the national territory are still accepted under the same terms after 31st December 2023, as long as their holder submits supporting evidence that he already has an appointment for the corresponding renewalâ.
Letâs assume I entered with Schengen visa thatâs ending in September 2023 and Iâm on last stage of GV (waiting for final approval). As far as I understand Iâm OK to stay till the end of 2023 with no questions. And what about 2024? Have I to apply for Schengen visa extension or SEF recibo is my proof that I have âan appointment for the corresponding renewalâ.
It could be possible they have looked at a different thing. They were quite busy.
According the lawyer, Dispacho 12870-C/2021 is still valid, they were not able to find anything that cancels is.
The way I understood it, itâs valid for a stay in Portugal with sufficient proof (SEF registration, Request for documents, etc), but it doesnât give a right to come and go (like a Visa does), so everyone who would tries to exercise this coming back to PT would be at the mercy of a specific border agent.
The following is not in the legal field, but success stories here and also reported by the lawyer show that chances are high that it just works. Recommended actions to increase chances of return (
):
- Send an email to SEF before going with the explanation why are you staying and what is the purpose of leaving the country. Attach documents proving your stay and why you need to go.
- Try talking to SEF at the airport and getting some sort of confirmation (maybe a letter or even just a stamp), with the same document package. They donât normally accept people there, but it could be possible.
It bothers me that such an important thing is outside of a legal field, but I guess this is how it is.
If anyone can share their experience, especially coming back to PT with an expired Schengen counter, it would be magnificent to learn the story.
I applied in December 2021, not yet pre-approved, moved to Lisbon in April 2022, enter & leave Schengen via Lisbon a/p at least once a month (occasionally via Madrid), hold a UK passport (ie Schengen 90/180 day is granted on entry and wet stamped on entry/exit), never had any issues at Border Control regarding âoverstayâ
Thanks for sharing, Peter,
If you do the math of a rolling 90 days, you shouldâve overstayed around July 2022, and all the following entrances were just b/c they didnât count it, am I reading it right? Or you showed them some paperwork occasionally?
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I think the truth is no border guard has time/inclination to count up 100 stamps, without some relative suspicion. Later this year ETIAS will be introduced, and my understanding is that this counting will then all then be electronic and immediate.
You are correct. They never counted, my passport is littered with stamps (it would be good as impossible to work out from stamps alone anyway)
On entry I am occasionally asked how long I will stay in PT in which case I say that I live here - no reaction.
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I think the truth is no border guard has time/inclination to count up 100 stamps, without some relative suspicion. Later this year ETIAS will be introduced, and my understanding is that this counting will then all then be electronic and immediate.
Maybe itâs true for some ârelaxedâ countries, like Portugal, Spain, Greece, maybe France, but itâs not true for more order-oriented countries like Germany, Switzerland or Estonia, for example.
Risking is not worth the stress.
Later this year ETIAS will be introduced, and my understanding is that this counting will then all then be electronic and immediate.
Unrelated to this thread, it seems like it also clears up pre-Schengen agreements, adding allowance automatically. Do you know anything about it by chance?
Like all things about borders / immigration itâs not straightforward, currently delayed again
On entry I am occasionally asked how long I will stay in PT in which case I say that I live here - no reaction.
So given your statistics as a frequent entrant to PT, it seems like itâs rather safe to say that PT border guards bother counting stamps?
Did you feel like they see your SEF application on their screen with some special status?
Sorry for these annoying questions, it really bothers me
Correct, Iâve never had an officer in PT attempt to count, simply find a space to stamp. (I have been counted in Geneva however - I passed)
Occasionally we chat - Iâve asked if they can see my visa application on their system, they say no. And sometimes they ask me if they should stamp my passport ( after I say I live in PT) presumably because they know it causes problems elsewhere in EU.
In terms of special status, if there is one, frankly there are too many ppl, Brits especially, with âirregularâ immigration status because of SEF delays, they give a lot of leeway.
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I think it may be special situation for Brits because who in PT really knows if a Brit in front of you is a pre-Brexit one (grandfathered type) or a post-Brexit one (90/180 type) 
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can we come back to the subject please
are there any russians who submitted for GV in 2021 and got preapprovals in 2023?
As far as I know Russian citizenship doesnât affect processing until the very last stage- final approval. So if you applied at the end of 2021 and still didnât received pre-approval you probably stuck in the line with all other nationalities. Descrimination begins when it comes to final approval. There are a lot of those Russians/Belorussians who passed bio more then a year ago but still waiting for final approval.
right. so the moment to file a lawsuit is 6 months after biometrics
My lawyers will be finally submitting the lawsuit to the court probably in next week or two, I will keep you all updated on how it goes. My biometric appointment was in November 2021âŠ
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Dec 21 applicant, preapproval May 2023
A good news for us highlighted in another topic:
6 final approvals for Russian citizens in August.
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I wonder if this was an internal decision to start approving them again. Good news for you guys!