acknowledged. I might be coming off as harsh. it’s all sets of choices and concerns and tradeoffs. I don’t have kids so I can’t speak to what I might or might not want to be doing with respect to them in the first place.
Thanks. Agreed timing is not ideal.
Most purposes for discussion are for outcomes and not necessarily for monetary reasons. The amounts are steep for an application but relatively small compared to the overall cost. This forum must have some folks for whom the application costs are a monetary burden, so do not want to be insensitive.
However placing children on the GV path for ultimate citizenship when another is available to them at shorter overall duration, particularly if they will be young, is not about dollars & cents, in as much as it’s about navigating the system to achieve an outcome.
For example, imagine a very ordinary scenario where a very young child that must keep renewing up to 2x times (3 total!) post GV before citizenship eligibility. How will the offshore permanent residency investment renewals work if the rest of the family has achieved citizenship and the initial investment is no longer around to support the application?
I assume that Mercan has the end date on a rolling basis perhaps for this reason? But in contrast they rarely explain the conversion to citizenship and also how it impacts children. They are more concerned about the upfront residency program (though granted their agent is good about 1 lump sum instead of a per-individual cost basis). Also, not mentioned is their overall significant gross up of the property contributed to the project (or at least some projects AFAIK), but that’s another discussion topic…
On your KFC example:
let me take the bait …
Why is semblance of economic activity (assuming the operators make money by fulfilling an economic need of consumers) a bad thing? In the non-pejorative 3rd world, fast food outlets are probably the cleanest and most sanitary of most eating establishments.
Culture and authenticity are key attractions in Portugal. If I want to experience nice weather and see KFC+McDonald’s everywhere, I might as well go to Honolulu.
I’m with @nevadaandonward on this one. Portugal has an awesome food culture. To loose that American fast food would be a shame. And Portugal is not a 3rd world country by any definition.
My Portuguese friend said that people are not enamored of it, but sometimes even the Portuguese need food served, well, quickly, and most Portuguese food outlets are not bastions of speed (speed being typically inversely related to quality except at Chipotle, and the continent has never seemed to have much of a taste for Mexican). But as nevada said, if I want American culture, I can always go to America. Globalization may be economically beneficial but it has downsides depending on what it is you want out of life.
Though that was somewhat tongue in cheek anyway.
Well, that’s why I backed off as saying I was maybe too harsh. I don’t have kids, I have a cat, and cat passports are easy to get. I don’t have perspectives on what outcomes are desirable to those with kids. To me it seems like if you go GV for the kids, you will get their citizenship at the same time one way or the other whatever the letter of the law might seem to say, and you have residency for them in the meantime. Other paths are unclear. That is of course conjecture on my part and I’ve not spent a ton of time on the details because, well. So to any extent I have offended, I apologize, I am not in a position to be having much of an opinion in the first place and should not have spoken so.
Given that the path to citizenship is somewhat vague and no one goverment-side is promising jack-all one way or the other… well, Mercan is first and foremost a property company. They have arrangements with several independent lawyers to handle the visa processing over which they specifically state they have no control, so they take no responsibility for outcome, beyond that their property will meet the requirements. In my discussions with them, what I got was that their #1 priority was to be reliable and professional in what they do. Given that, if I were them, I certainly wouldn’t want to be making any sort of statement about anything so seemingly vague and uncertain as the myriad paths to citizenship for minors. Indeed their advertising is definitely way cranked back on the citizenship thing entirely and I imagine that’s quite deliberate. Promise what you can deliver.
As to the finances of Mercan… again, my take has been that Mercan is aiming to be the safe, reliable choice, e.g. their hotel project starts and ends on time and doesn’t go down in flames. Which means having plenty of financial cushion so that they can ensure delivery, which requires healthy margins. Some people are happy to pay for that. I might have. But yes, that’s another topic for which there are other threads.
I asked my lawyer about leaving the spouse off and they said 3 years after my citizenship - doesn’t matter how long we’ve been married. I forget the exact details but it was a definite “no way” from my POV anyway.
Perhaps I’m going off topic but what is the basis for this information? This is extremely contrary to everything I’ve read on the matter. Again, do consider your lawyer’s financial incentive here…
I just posed the question. I didn’t dig into it, as it wasn’t really anything I was going to do anyway - not having residency at all for the next 6 years sort of gets in the way of actually moving there. It was a while ago so maybe I am mis-remembering.
There wasn’t that much of a financial incentive from their POV, the spouse was a relatively nominal add-on to the fee.
Hence the confusion and why so many are trying to understand the semantics. The GV does not have a direct path to citizenship for the kids who are less than 18. Furthermore, when they get permanent residency, the renewals add additional time and and cost (not always monetary).
There are simple ways to achieve residency or citizenship if one wants to be onshore. The Portugal GV is an exclusively offshore program but unfortunately it has been complicated by bureaucracy (inadvertently or intentionally).
Yes, that would make sense. But some people can not stay for the minimum amount required by the law. So, they do prefer to go through the Golden Visa route.
The timing is an advantage when it comes to the Golden Visa; however, the D7 is smoother.
As anyone navigates both children and their grandparents (applicant’s parents), and as time has progressed, are there any strategy updates for how best to obtain citizenship for all?
We’ve covered the nuance of non-majority-age children being ineligible for citizenship at the same time as the GV investor (if still not of majority age after the ‘5 years’).
Has anyone gone through the process, including with children, successfully?
My understanding is that children who are unmarried and still your dependent (for instance, college students) when the time comes for you to naturalize would be able to naturalize along with you, as GV beneficiaries, up to the age of 24.
So no, not a waste of time if the kids are 13. But you would need to factor in the wait times (~2 years for the GV + 5 years before you can naturalize) and add it to your kids’ ages at the time you apply for GV, to see if they’re likely to still be young enough to benefit.