acknowledged. I might be coming off as harsh. itâs all sets of choices and concerns and tradeoffs. I donât have kids so I canât speak to what I might or might not want to be doing with respect to them in the first place.
Thanks. Agreed timing is not ideal.
Most purposes for discussion are for outcomes and not necessarily for monetary reasons. The amounts are steep for an application but relatively small compared to the overall cost. This forum must have some folks for whom the application costs are a monetary burden, so do not want to be insensitive.
However placing children on the GV path for ultimate citizenship when another is available to them at shorter overall duration, particularly if they will be young, is not about dollars & cents, in as much as itâs about navigating the system to achieve an outcome.
For example, imagine a very ordinary scenario where a very young child that must keep renewing up to 2x times (3 total!) post GV before citizenship eligibility. How will the offshore permanent residency investment renewals work if the rest of the family has achieved citizenship and the initial investment is no longer around to support the application?
I assume that Mercan has the end date on a rolling basis perhaps for this reason? But in contrast they rarely explain the conversion to citizenship and also how it impacts children. They are more concerned about the upfront residency program (though granted their agent is good about 1 lump sum instead of a per-individual cost basis). Also, not mentioned is their overall significant gross up of the property contributed to the project (or at least some projects AFAIK), but thatâs another discussion topicâŠ
On your KFC example:
let me take the bait 
âŠ
Why is semblance of economic activity (assuming the operators make money by fulfilling an economic need of consumers) a bad thing? In the non-pejorative 3rd world, fast food outlets are probably the cleanest and most sanitary of most eating establishments.
Culture and authenticity are key attractions in Portugal. If I want to experience nice weather and see KFC+McDonaldâs everywhere, I might as well go to Honolulu.
Iâm with @nevadaandonward on this one. Portugal has an awesome food culture. To loose that American fast food would be a shame. And Portugal is not a 3rd world country by any definition.
Third.
My Portuguese friend said that people are not enamored of it, but sometimes even the Portuguese need food served, well, quickly, and most Portuguese food outlets are not bastions of speed (speed being typically inversely related to quality except at Chipotle, and the continent has never seemed to have much of a taste for Mexican). But as nevada said, if I want American culture, I can always go to America. Globalization may be economically beneficial but it has downsides depending on what it is you want out of life.
Though that was somewhat tongue in cheek anyway. 
Well, thatâs why I backed off as saying I was maybe too harsh. I donât have kids, I have a cat, and cat passports are easy to get. I donât have perspectives on what outcomes are desirable to those with kids. To me it seems like if you go GV for the kids, you will get their citizenship at the same time one way or the other whatever the letter of the law might seem to say, and you have residency for them in the meantime. Other paths are unclear. That is of course conjecture on my part and Iâve not spent a ton of time on the details because, well. So to any extent I have offended, I apologize, I am not in a position to be having much of an opinion in the first place and should not have spoken so.
Given that the path to citizenship is somewhat vague and no one goverment-side is promising jack-all one way or the other⊠well, Mercan is first and foremost a property company. They have arrangements with several independent lawyers to handle the visa processing over which they specifically state they have no control, so they take no responsibility for outcome, beyond that their property will meet the requirements. In my discussions with them, what I got was that their #1 priority was to be reliable and professional in what they do. Given that, if I were them, I certainly wouldnât want to be making any sort of statement about anything so seemingly vague and uncertain as the myriad paths to citizenship for minors. Indeed their advertising is definitely way cranked back on the citizenship thing entirely and I imagine thatâs quite deliberate. Promise what you can deliver.
As to the finances of Mercan⊠again, my take has been that Mercan is aiming to be the safe, reliable choice, e.g. their hotel project starts and ends on time and doesnât go down in flames. Which means having plenty of financial cushion so that they can ensure delivery, which requires healthy margins. Some people are happy to pay for that. I might have. But yes, thatâs another topic for which there are other threads.
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I asked my lawyer about leaving the spouse off and they said 3 years after my citizenship - doesnât matter how long weâve been married. I forget the exact details but it was a definite âno wayâ from my POV anyway.
Perhaps Iâm going off topic but what is the basis for this information? This is extremely contrary to everything Iâve read on the matter. Again, do consider your lawyerâs financial incentive hereâŠ
I just posed the question. I didnât dig into it, as it wasnât really anything I was going to do anyway - not having residency at all for the next 6 years sort of gets in the way of actually moving there. It was a while ago so maybe I am mis-remembering.
There wasnât that much of a financial incentive from their POV, the spouse was a relatively nominal add-on to the fee.
Spot on.
Hence the confusion and why so many are trying to understand the semantics. The GV does not have a direct path to citizenship for the kids who are less than 18. Furthermore, when they get permanent residency, the renewals add additional time and and cost (not always monetary).
Regarding this:
There are simple ways to achieve residency or citizenship if one wants to be onshore. The Portugal GV is an exclusively offshore program but unfortunately it has been complicated by bureaucracy (inadvertently or intentionally).
Yes, that would make sense. But some people can not stay for the minimum amount required by the law. So, they do prefer to go through the Golden Visa route.
The timing is an advantage when it comes to the Golden Visa; however, the D7 is smoother.
As anyone navigates both children and their grandparents (applicantâs parents), and as time has progressed, are there any strategy updates for how best to obtain citizenship for all?
Weâve covered the nuance of non-majority-age children being ineligible for citizenship at the same time as the GV investor (if still not of majority age after the â5 yearsâ).
Has anyone gone through the process, including with children, successfully?
My understanding is that children who are unmarried and still your dependent (for instance, college students) when the time comes for you to naturalize would be able to naturalize along with you, as GV beneficiaries, up to the age of 24.
So no, not a waste of time if the kids are 13. But you would need to factor in the wait times (~2 years for the GV + 5 years before you can naturalize) and add it to your kidsâ ages at the time you apply for GV, to see if theyâre likely to still be young enough to benefit.
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Hi everyone, as I understand from this community. After 5 years of holding GV and getting PT citizenship, my children who are under 18 years old are not able to get PT citizenship if they do not stay or study in Portugal. What option do they have to be able to travel with me in Europe without applying tourist visa? We are from SE Asia which require visa to enter Europe?
Iâm not sure that is really true. According to this gov.pt page:
Minor or incapable foreigner, whose mother or father acquired Portuguese nationality after his/her birth can acquire Portuguese nationality if he/she declares, through their legal representatives, that he/she wants to be Portuguese and as long as no other circumstances opposing the acquisition of nationality are verified;
The search function on this website works quite well.
Here is one such summary post by Jeff:
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This is a hot topic of debate. What Iâve established is that for minors itâs about showing connections to Portugal. Therefore weâre getting the GV for our children, as the 5 year residence is in itself a connection to Portugal (according to some lawyers Iâve seen posting elsewhere). Then weâll apply for citizenship first, then as soon as we have ours weâll apply for theirs. We also own property in Portugal so weâll probably look to be spending the long summer holidays there, maybe enrol the children in summer courses etc. Basically as much as we can to put forward the case that they have connections to Portugal.
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I have the same concern, but I have been advised by my law firm that after I receive the Portuguese nationality I can apply for Family reunification for the kids, and itâs similar to PR.
Getting the nationality for the kids then becomes a different story, and requires ties to Portugal which is vague and is not documented clearly.
Can someone shed their experience in this or has a similar situation.
Regards,
Bisho
Yes, but I believe family reunification with a citizen will come with stronger residence requirements than GV. While you are on GV, your kids are on GV-dependent, they only have to stay 7 days a year like you.
Once you are a citizen, your kids change to citizen-dependent status, which probably requires majority of the time in Portugal.
Not a problem if you already live there of course.
There is an objective way to prove ties: https://dre.pt/dre/detalhe/decreto-lei/26-2022-180657814
Artigo 56.Âș
4 - A ConservatĂłria dos Registos Centrais presume que existe ligação efetiva Ă comunidade nacional quando, no momento do pedido, o interessado, que seja menor ou maior acompanhado que careça de representação para o ato, resida legalmente em territĂłrio portuguĂȘs nos cinco anos imediatamente anteriores ao pedido e, sendo menor em idade escolar, comprove ainda a frequĂȘncia escolar em estabelecimento de ensino em territĂłrio portuguĂȘs.
This method is sufficient. It may not be strictly necessary - lawyers mention successes with other proofs sometimes, but there is no guarantee.
I am not sure if enrolling the kids just in summer courses are enough to prove the ties, my understanding after reading the law is the kids shall be attending the school in Portugal while applying for the citizenship.