Is there written law on residence requirement for residence permit under family reunification? Iâm curious letâs say my children apply residence permit under family reunification and only stay in PT one month per year, will they be not allowed to renew the permit?
Just did some search and found this:
Permanent residence card for a family member of an EU citizen who does not have European nationality
Family members of EU citizens who do not have European nationality must apply for a permanent residence card after living legally in Portugal for over five years. The permanent residence card must be applied for before the residence card expires at the offices of the SEF, after making an appointment. The cost is EUR 15.
The permanent residence card is valid for 10 years and must be renewed before it expires.
I read it all, itâs not clear. If the minor acquires citizenship through residence then yes it says school. But if itâs by right of their parent being Portuguese, I understand itâs less clear, itâs more about showing connections to PT. We will certainly try as it seems rather illogical that our children miss out due to a quirk of their ages at the time weâve done the GV. Older children would be fine.
1 Like
This literally says that connections to PT are assumed if the kids have been legally resident 5 years and prove school attendance in Portuguese territory: https://dre.pt/dre/detalhe/decreto-lei/26-2022-180657814
Artigo 56.Âș
4 - A ConservatĂłria dos Registos Centrais presume que existe ligação efetiva Ă comunidade nacional quando, no momento do pedido, o interessado, que seja menor ou maior acompanhado que careça de representação para o ato, resida legalmente em territĂłrio portuguĂȘs nos cinco anos imediatamente anteriores ao pedido e, sendo menor em idade escolar, comprove ainda a frequĂȘncia escolar em estabelecimento de ensino em territĂłrio portuguĂȘs.
1 Like
It says that opposition canât be made to acquisition of nationality by declaration if the child attends school, but I donât see that it says itâs compulsory? What it says is sufficient ties to the community, and I believe the onus is on the state to oppose. Read pages 16 to 19 of this report. I believe this is why some lawyers say it is possible, and why they say that the child having the GV helps (as it is 5 years legal residence so is in itself a tie to the community).
Anyway, we will be consulting a lawyer that specialises in this process to give our children the best possible chance. It will be interesting to learn if others have done this successfully as I know there are many GV holders who plan to apply for their children at some point.
2 Likes
Yeah as I said above it is sufficient, but may not be necessary.
We are in this position of having minor kids and I have spoken to 2 different lawyers about it:
Our GV lawyers recommend to get GV for kids, and maybe enroll them in school down the line, just to be 100% covered.
Another lawyer who specializes in citizenship, initially told us GV is completely unnecessary because there is a policy that for children under 14 the acquisition of nationality is never opposed. But then, when I asked a year later, they said the policy had changed, and it is sometimes opposed especially for children with no PT citizen relatives except the naturalized parent. But they say there are many possible proofs of connection, so the GV+school attendance may still not be necessary. But I worry, if you donât have that, you are basically putting your kidsâ citizenship at the mercy of a bureaucratâs discretion. That seems likely to be very stressful.
1 Like
That would appear to be the current stance, yes. All that means though is that youâre at the whim of Catbert, who may or may not be napping when your paperwork goes across their desk. Your mileage on this may definitely vary.
Yeah. As I understand it, you are at least given a chance to demonstrate connection if they arenât satisfied. I.e. they wonât immediately deny the application, but they will pause the process and ask you to supply additional proofs of connection.
But if ultimately you supply everything you have and it isnât enough, they could deny.
The 5 years residence + school attendance is pretty easy for anyone who actually lives in PT to accomplish, so it seems they could shift to denying anything that doesnât measure up to that. But thatâs just crystal ball gazing.
Iâm also on the same boat as I also have minor kids and will be applying for their citizenship down the line, without the schooling as we donât plan to move there.
Once someone applies for citizenship for minor children with just the GV and no school/other ties, please let us know here the outcome.
We plan to get other ties as well as the GV too. We own a home in Portugal where weâll spend time. Weâll also get our children to learn Portuguese, and maybe do some longer holiday camps during their summer holidays etc.
Read page 18 of the report I shared, the opposition process is done through the courts, not at the mercy of a bureaucratâs discretion. The court also says the majority of the opposition is in respect of foreigners married to Portuguese, so hopefully this means opposition for minors is less common.
1 Like
Itâs a bureaucratâs discretion to decide to send it to court, in a civil law country where by definition precedent doesnât matter and therefore, since there isnât a super strong definition of what âtiesâ mean outside a few distinctly delineated instances, youâre more or less at the judgeâs whim. It still feels like Catbert would be at work.
There might be MOJ office regs on what to send and not send, but those arenât public.
If you have guidance from a lawyer with experience in what judges will generally accept, then youâre probably good. And it sounds like youâre attempting the Necessary and Prudent. Itâs just there are no guarantees.
Personally, I suspect that without significant (defined as multiple months a year) boots-on-ground time, youâve got no chance - though I donât think it needs to be full time either. I have nothing behind that other than impressions gleaned from extensive reading and impressions of Portuguese culture, so this is worth the paper itâs printed on (literally). Like others, I would be interested to hear what works.
With respect to your opinion, you share in the present moment an article dated from 2020 which is in the context of this discussion outdated if not obsolete.
Until 2022 the legal position of the IRN was standardized and granting nationality to minors, with consideration for family unity, was presumed. As of 2022, the calculation was changed based on a legal opinion from the ministry of justice and some elements such as the requirement of attendance at a local school among others became obligatory, and the opinion specifically rejected other approaches.
That is not to say it is the end of the story, because there are numerous examples of courts rejecting this approach and thus, I would say it is a nuanced rule and not a strict interpretation.
As Portuguese law seems to change frequently it is advisable to consult a qualified lawyer who is knowledgeable on these topics.
Do you have a link to these changes?
If the school attendance requirement is too strict, Iâm thinking plan B is to just have the children attend enough classes to pass A2 Portuguese, then they apply for GV PR and maintain that until 18, at which point they can straightforwardly apply for naturalization.
As I understand it the GV PR is an independent permit, so once they have that they no longer depend on the parent holding GV and the parent is free to naturalize. (At which point the kids can try to apply for citizenship as dependents, but if that falls through, at least they have the GV PR as a backup.)
i donât have link only a PDF of the opinion. I can repost it.
The main point is summarized as (paraphrasing): family unity is a concept in which the legislature is interested in and desires to facilitate but does not impose it or want to achieve family reunification at all costs.
Parece_tecnico_Ministerio.pdf (627.8 KB)
My understanding is, you canât apply for PR for minors. Only citizenship. Correct me if I am wrong
Thatâs an interesting theory, did you get some specific advise that each person could independently apply for a GV PR after 5 years of residency under GV or family reunification?
Noted, I should have highlighted the date of the report I shared. However, I have also read the 2022 amendments and I donât see the reference to obligatory - I see a presumption that there would be no opposition to a declaration of citizenship by a minor if they attend school in Portugal. I donât see it says obligatory, but my language / legal interpretation could of course be incorrect.
I am in dialogue with a lawyer who says that attendance at school in Portugal for minors is not required, and that the GV residence card plus other links to the country would be sufficient. He has current cases with these characteristics in process so Iâll be watching these very closely.
2 Likes
My understanding is that to maintain GV PR you have to maintain the original GV investment. If the primary applicant becomes a citizen, would the link to the investment remain? Something for a lawyer to clarify, as that could be an alternative option.