No, it really has not been that horrible. True, without the card you are considerably more restricted from free travel to other EU countries (at least in theory), accessing the social healthcare system, obtaining a loan, or shipping your baggage from your home country to Portugal. However, you are perfectly free to live in Portugal and enjoy the quality life this country has to offer. Your filed application permits you to stay on the national territory, and nobody bothers you as long as you engage in a typical normal life. You are certainly free to live in your own apartment, or you can also rent one. You can still access all the medical facilities by purchasing a private insurance coverage, at very affordable rates. Even the travels throughout EU were not all too difficult, either by car or by air.
For your reference, I moved to Portugal after pre-approval, but well prior to biometrics or final approval, and I still do not have my card in hand.
Having promises repeatedly broken, a previous government threatening to retroactively cancel the GV program you put your life savings into, having the government threaten to repossess your real estate and redistribute it to a greater good, putting other groups ahead of you, threatening to take public healthcare away from you, making you feel shame for having worked hard and saved money over your lifetime, publicly vilifying you on the world stage as the cause of poverty and housing crises . Perhaps these are things that don’t bother you. Speaking for myself, it has been a traumatic and stressful experience and one I would not wish on anyone else.
I do not disagree that the system in the current state is dysfunctional. However, understand that you are undertaking one of the most difficult journeys in life - an emigration. It is never a trivial process, and you must be prepared for associated set-backs, integration challenges, etc. For me, it is my second emigration, and the first one to the U.S. was far harder than Portugal, if nothing else, for the few reasons I already stated.
On the other hand, you have an opportunity to initiate the process ahead of your re-locaion, continue to live during the process abroad with only minimal time requirements in the country (and only after you receive your first card), add your dependent family members on the same investment, learn the language only on the most basic level, and apply for citizenship within five years (though yet to be definitively determined from what date). There are not too many opportunities out there which would afford you the European citizenship with comparatively small investment and low commitment of time in the country. I would suggest to keep your eyes on the final prize, which is substantial.
Ultimately, I was responding to the statement that you can live in Portugal whilst still in legal limbo, and rather quite well. I have been doing so for over two years, and my experience overall has been positive, despite the obvious and very troublesome reasons you have articulated.
Obviously it was and still is one of the most amazing emigration opportunities. As long as your expectations are not to get your documents quickly - this opportunities is the cheapest, the most flexible and the most unique for any western country. Grateful and thankful it still exists despite multiple attempts to shut it down.
@PCERoman@frond-exiles-0q - i speak only for myself- i am a lesser mortal, not a sage like you guys. So please keep your feelings of gratitude and large heartedness towards this dysfunctional and inefficient program to yourself. Everybody who applied for this program understands the complexities associated with emigration in specific and life in general. Far more experiences are far more complicated than investing money and arranging police clearance certificate. No need to preach. And let us restrict the discussion to the promises made and delivered w.r.t this program- it belies common sense to compare it with other programs just for your convenience.
Pardon me, are you telling me how I should feel and speak about my experience and gratitude publicly? If so, I suggest I should speak to your parents instead; if not - my apologies.
I agree no other program allows you to become a citizen without living in a country. And no other American or European program allows you to become a citizen so quickly and so inexpensively.
If some consider the ARI to be a “comparatively small investment”, I congratulate them for their extraordinary situations. I hail from a more working class stratum of society, where it represents a large investment.
I share the disappointment over the government’s failure to deliver on its promises, not to mention the scapegoating and threats.
I believe you live there you can apply for citizenship in eg Germany in just 3 years if you are well integrated (excellent German skills etc). And the application is processed much faster than Portugal because German bureaucracy is actually efficient. So you could arrive in Germany and have the passport in hand 3.5 years later. Portugal is more like 7 years even with the new law covering residency from application date so double Germany.
Thank you for the suggestion, but please consider that this is a public forum, and we are entitled to discuss our individual experiences freely. Your expressed agreement is not solicited.
That might well be the case, but I doubt it allows you to spend just 7 days per year on average - I think you are required be living there more than 183 days per year. And becoming sufficiently fluent in German “ist kein leichtes Unterfangen” - far more involved than A2 level. Of course, the German bureaucracy is far more efficient and predictable.
If you are willing to live full time in a country, there are many others that would offer you a “retirement” visa, so to speak. These are cheaper and easier - Portuguese D7 being one example. France is another one of those that comes to mind, where after five years of consecutive renewals, you can start your application for the citizenship. And so, it all comes down to your personal situation and your willingness to put up with different quirks and limitations.
Just as your suggestion is not solicited either. Residing in Portugal with an expired schengen visa or over 90 days in case of visa free countries’ is not the right approach and depending upon the passport someone holds or what they plan to do while waiting for their 1st residence card, can and will have repercussions. Maybe u were a 2021 or prior applicant, maybe u hold a passport which doesn’t require schengen visa, maybe it was easy for u to get into a rental agreement without residence but what worked for you may not work for everyone else.
That is completely unrealistic for Germany. While some of the bureaucracy in Germany works OK (though I’d hardly call it efficient), the Ausländerbehörde is anything but.
Also, good luck actually qualifying for the three year fast track, so far that seems to only be a theoretical possibility, not practically achievable.
And while the citizenship process has been somewhat faster than Portugal they are now dealing with their own spike in demand due to the changed citizenship law.
So realistically it’ll take you maybe a few months to get approved for the relevant D-visa, a couple more for your residence permit (depending on location you apply in), then another five years before you qualify for citizenship (assuming you’ve mastered B1 German). The citizenship process can easily take 18 months now. So all-in-all you’re looking at close to seven years.
Indeed, my family living moved 7 months before, still waiting for appointment to come, i am still working out of Portugal , i think it is good idea as well so far with our experience
Your agreement is not solicited! You might want to learn to differentiate between “suggestion” and “agreement”. The only suggestion I would contemplate is for you to understand the concept of a free forum: we are free share our experiences in a courteous and civilised manner.
No, it is not “the right approach” - fully agreed. However, Portuguese law allows you to stay in the country whilst your application is being processed. This applies to all “irregular residents”, whether they apply via GV or MI in Portugal as long as they entered the country legally on a valid visa. It extends equally to those who applied pre-, during, or post-COVID. Hence, despite your convictions, you will have inconveniences, but not repercussions. A letter from an attorney and/or SEF/AIMA confirmation was all that was needed to enter the country.
For your info, this is not unique to Portugal. The U.S. also allows you to remain legally in the country whilst your petition for residency is under consideration. The mass deportations that you see are of the illegal migrants who had no proper documentation to enter the U.S.
Recently, to my surprise, my lawyer unequivocally informed me that Portugal is not necessarily allowing pre-residence-card ARI applicants from non-visa-free countries to enter Portugal without a separate Schengen visa, even if the flight originates from a non-Schengen country such as the UK.
This contradicted my prior understanding as well as many of the postings on this forum, so I questioned her repeatedly, but she insisted that anyone attempting to enter Portugal with a passport from a country that is not entitled to enter Portugal visa-free will be at risk of denied entry without either a Portugal residence card or separate Schengen visa.
Perhaps there has been some confusion as many of the posters on this forum are able to enter Portugal visa-free, and the Portuguese system may have allowed them to remain after arrival. This should be unsurprising as we all know that laws, regulations, and procedures are applied inconsistently in Portugal — just look at the contagem de tempo discussion as evidence.
In any case, the status and rights of ARI applicants from non-visa-free countries are far from secure or clear.
Also, let’s not discuss US immigration policy or other US political topics on this thread. Nobody agrees on basic facts about current events in the US (and I would dispute what you said as well), so going down that road will turn into an off-topic flame war.
Let’s keep the insults and personal attacks to Portugal-only!
