Portugal GV Fund Comparison?

Having looked at the list of Portugal GV investment funds, has anyone assembled a comparison table? I’ve been learning about some of their fee structures, etc and was hoping someone had already done this homework. If not I can try and publish something based on the documentation I’ve received.

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One of the advantages of funds over real estate is having less fees… but that doesn’t mean there are no fees! I don’t like surprises so I’m trying to be diligent here.

I’ve started a comparison table. Boxes in red need more info. Would appreciate if anyone can help me fill this out! :pray:

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For the BlueCrow fund, have you checked if the €5,000 audit “fee” is per investor or for the fund overall? I always assumed the latter (making it rather insignificant on a per investor basis)

Good question! I assumed it was per investor since they included it in their pricing slide?

For the BlueCrow fund, have you checked if the €5,000 audit “fee” is per investor or for the fund overall? I always assumed the latter (making it rather insignificant on a per investor basis)

Hi Faizal!

I was just making a to do list of comparisons I wanted to do including the funds you included in your spreadsheet - great timing. If I can locate any of the missing information as I review the fund options noted, I will certainly share!

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I heard back from BlueCrow and the audit fee is for the fund overall so roughly 0.05% per investor. While this is good news, honest misunderstandings like this are what scare me most.

In other news, I’ve just added the NEST Capital Fund to the spreadsheet .

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You list is very similar to mine and the numbers are the same. I did have 2 funds by Lince Capital.

I just started the investing process. Dunas Capital seemed like the best investment, but housing made me nervous. It is taking longer than expected due to getting documentation like birth certificates that need to be apostilled. Depending on the state, this can take a while.

I have a similar list for attorneys.

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Yah I spoke with Dunas Capital this morning. I have the same residential real estate concerns but am hopeful for the long term. Are you open to sharing your list of attorneys?

Thoughts on diversifying by investing in multiple funds?

DM me your email. I am not sure how to share a file without giving you access to my entire google drive.

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I am just starting to investigate these funds as well and will add any additional information I find.

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Hi guys. @faizal I think we cannot split moneys across funds. Btw thanks for giving me the write privileges. Will add a few funds tomorrow to the sheet. Have also looked at Nest and a couple of others including PT inno.

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I would also be interested in a lawyer comparison table. I’m at that phase of the process at the moment, and would be happy to add what I find out.

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@faizal Can you please upload the lawyer file. One thing that I did not expect was the need local tax representative. This can be any Portuguese Citizen. This person is responsible for you taxes if you do not pay them. My quotes have been all over the place but I am expecting 500 Euros per person per year.

As for splitting funds, most have a 350K Euro minimum for that exact reason.

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Hi everyone! My family is at the stage of choosing the fund to invest, thank you so much for sharing the comparison table. That’s a great help! We’ve heard about a fund called JWP GOLDEN FUND, FCR and checked that it is also listed on CMVM website. Has anybody come across this fund? Any comment on this fund? :pray:

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Can someone Make a total of all the expenses for each fund and sum it up for the 5/7 year period? I would have done it but some of these charges aren’t clear. Thanks.

Thanks Faizal. This is helpful. I am also researching the same funds and have some more info to add and possibly schedule calls with the contacts Thomas provided. BlueCrow contact provided intros to few lawyers and that is helpful.
I had a few questions and if I learn more can exchange notes:

  1. Capital growth and Capital protection of the initial 350K. Nest is the only one which actually talks about the capital risk
  2. Unlikely, but if anyone offer protection if the GV is rejected for any reason
  3. Annual cashflow for expenses and dividends
  • Anand

Had a zoom call with Bluecrow today and here are additional findings. Faizal, if you give me write access to your spreadsheet, I will update it

  • Fund was initiated by a family who owned real estate, opened it up for GV investors in 2019 mid
  • All of their industrial and commercial properties are rented and now they have agri investments
  • They receive a yield of 6.4% and after taking the 1% management fee and .2% other fees (bank/supervisory, etc), they expect to offer an annual dividend of 5.2%. They guarantee a yield of 5% annually
  • Maturity of the fund is 12 years with an exit option at end of 6 years for GV investors
  • Expect the capital growth to be 7% annually and on this capital growth 10% if kept back at exit for performance
  • PWC is their auditor
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Thanks Anand! This sounds promising. I’d love for you [and others] to contribute to the spreadsheet. You should be able to click Request Access in the sheet and I’ll be notified to grant edit permissions to your gmail account.

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Guys, btw have also begun investigating non-RE funds and have come across a few including funds in renewables. Something which has definitely piqued my interest. The risk levels seem quite manageable given the strong support for renewables in Europe; that said begs a bit more investigation. Any thoughts from others who may have explored these alternate avenues? thanks

Hello All,

Apologies for being a bit late to the conversation. I have been looking into the various funds for a few weeks now. On the one hand, want to pull the trigger and make an investment in order to get the GV process started. On the other hand, given that this will be a rather (at least for me) substantial investment with significantly more potential risk than I’m used to (usually invest in the markets), also want to take my time.

For a bit of background, I am a corporate attorney, and have worked quite a bit in private equity. But I am acting on my own behalf here, and looking to obtain a GV (and potentially citizenship later down the line). So I would very much value exchanging thoughts on the subject, and am certainly happy to add my thoughts based on the research that I’ve done.

I suspect that you are all rather sophisticated when it comes to investing, so apologies if any of my remarks state the obvious. It is important to bear in mind that investing in a fund carries significant risk – namely that your money is locked up for a significant period of time with no control over how it is deployed, and no guarantee of a return. Moreover, unlike publicly listed equities (particularly in the US where disclosure requirements are high), the only information you have to rely on is what is provided by the fund itself.

In this regard, all information provided by these funds is very limited compared to what you would see in a more “standard” fund (i.e. those that are managed by large private equity managers, and usually domiciled in Cayman, or sometimes in Luxembourg, Jersey, the Netherlands, etc.). I am not saying that this is a reason not to invest (I very much plan on doing so), but it just means that it is important to do as much due diligence as possible.

In that regard, the things that I have personally been focused on most with these funds are their track record (some have many funds under their belt, others very few), how much capital they have already raised (I am quite concerned with some that I have looked into, which are “aiming” to raise up to EUR 100m, and have only raised about EUR 5m or so), and also whether they have returning investors (which is always a good sign of successful manager). If they have not raised enough capital to successfully deploy their business plan, that could be VERY problematic in making it work successfully.

As regards sector, I am not sure what I think about RE. I would think that residential may still show promise, but have reservations about both retain and commercial as we seem to be at a historic inflection point where the future of both of these may change considerably.

I am much less worried about small differences in fees than on the sector and experience/reputation of the fund manager. I am less concerned about whether management fees are 1.5% or 2% than I am about what the ultimate return will be, and more importantly, whether I’ll get my initial capital back! That being said, I am somewhat confused by the economics of the NEST fund (which seems to be one of the more successful in raising funds so far). On the plus side, they plan on an annual 3% dividend, which is nice (although unusual for a PE fund). On the other hand, their 50% share of profits is unusual. The “standard” model for a PE fund is 2/20 – 2% management fee and a 20% “carry” (that is, after a “hurdle” rate of return to the investors, which is usually 8-10%, the fund then gets up to a 20% return and then the fund and the investors share further profits equally; this is just one example and there are many variations on this). Not saying the NEST model is not good – just unusual and I haven’t run the numbers.

In any event, I am going to continue to explore, and have noticed that several new funds have been added since the last time I looked, which is encouraging. I’d be very happy to be part of a collective conversation on this.

Best regards,

Bill

P.S. Apologies if this was a bit long-winded. I did warn, however, that I am a lawyer!! :joy:

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