As a lawyer myself, I would be less concerned about the lawyer you choose for actually processing the GV. This is more or less an administrative task (Portuguese lawyers on the forum are welcome to indicate if Iām mistaken), and the most important thing is to have someone who is competent, organized and experienced in doing these. I certainly would not go with the cheapest (although price is of course a consideration), but I would take whoever you feel comfortable with and gives you confidence in their experience and abilities.
Now, if you are looking for a lawyer to help with more complex matters related to living, working or investing in Portugal, dealing with tax issues, etc., then I would be much more careful about who you pick. In this case, the advice can be much more bespoke and you want to make sure your lawyer is up to the task.
With apologies in advance for raising a possibly disturbing issues, has anyone heard much about the EU Commission Presidentās recent comments on going after EU golden visas (https://www.economist.com/europe/2020/09/26/the-problem-of-the-eus-golden-passports)? I have to say that I find this quite concerning. I already had concerns about locking up EUR 350k for 6+ years (and possibly incurring losses), but now am concerned that it could perhaps all be for naught if the GV regime is revoked.
Frankly, I expected that this might happen eventually, but thought any action would be 5-10 years down the line (which is part of the reason I was considering making the investment soon ā i.e. to get my foot in the door before it closes). But if this is likely to happen sooner, then financial risk plus political risk is an awful lot of risk!
Would be curious to hear from anyone who has insight on this/what the Portuguese governmentās stance has been (if any) to try to protect GV holders and candidates, etc.
To answer the specific questions, of will a higher NAV affect your returns, does it make sense to enter at this high NAV, reframe the question: will the fact that the S&P has jumped huge percentages in the last few years affect your returns in subsequent years? You determine the answer in the same way, whatever the underlying.
You have to look in detail at the underlying numbers to determine NAV which means reading the annual report and balance sheets. Yes perhaps itās unreasonable but perhaps there is a reason. I have personally dug into this and am comfortable with the situation; I am specifically not expanding on this because you need to do your own due diligence which means reading the underlying numbers and being comfortable with them. I will note that Bluecrow is happy to expose those numbers to you.
With respect to most of these funds, I think there is very little information they CAN provide. They can talk about intent but thatās it.
That said, some of these funds are terrible even at that. One of them specifically asked me why I was no longer interested, and I told them in great detail - PPT spent more time talking about visa than fund, no clear mission statement or philosophy, no meaningful background - and they said they understood and were going to change it. Weāll see of course.
Previous rumour said PT gov might restrict GV applicantsā property investment in some areas, say Lisbon and Porto next yr. However, from several consulting firmsā resources, it sounds GV policy might not be changed within one or two yrs due to economic concernāPT would need more capital inflow due to pandemic . Personally, I understand EU seniorsā concern, itās simple logicāGV countries look like to open a back door for all EU members. However, EU has been always hard to reach agreement on fiscal policy, board and refugee issues etc based on its performance over past 10 yrs. I believe an effective united front is highly unlikely to be established in near future.
But, even if GV policy would not be changed shortly, itās sooner than later for investors to make decision.
Interesting, Iām behind on the economist perennially.
I have no special insight, but I expect the issue is far more in the programs handing out the passport directly with few other considerations, not the visa. The GV is not an automatic passport, and while permanent residence is desirable, itās hardly the same thing. Youāre entitled to health care but not pensions or a bunch of other things. The EU is not taking on vouching for you to other countries. You still have to prove a certain level of āPortuguesenessā to get a passport and Iām guessing the bar is the same for ARI as it is for a D7. I suspect itās that which is what matters.
More broadly on the topic, and maybe weāre diverting too much from the main thread here, I think changes to GV are both inevitable and desirable. The point of GV is to bring in capital that helps the economy. Think of it as a firehose that the government points in certain directions. It aimed it at several directions, but the one that really worked was real estate. Maybe now it decides āwell weāve achieved our goal there and the negatives now outweigh the positives for that sectorā and now wants to promote green energy or startups or toaster weenie producers, so it tweaks. But if it makes these kinds of changes, that means it views GV as a positive tool for Portugal, and is therefore likely to continue the program. And hopefully it IS a positive to PT, since if we intend to live there, we want PT to be a better place, I hope? But that also means not breaking faith with those who have already invested of course since if it does then new investors wonāt trust PT enough to want to invest, and the program dies and PT loses.
So Iām glad to see the new startup VC funds and I hope there is more innovation.
I fully agree with that. I am shocked at the lack of information of some of the funds (including one that interested me very much initially). For some of them, it seems fairly clear to me that someone either in RE development and/or GV promotion got the idea to put together a fund to attack this market, despite having little to know experience in running a fund. It is precisely for that reason that I have been attracted to the ātrueā VC funds (i.e. investing in tech startups, not RE), which seem to know what they are doing. (I should note that I am not referring to them again because I am trying to promote them ā to the contrary I have no interest/ties with them, and was not even considering going that route, but I may end up doing so.)
Hi
Anyone heard of Lakhani Group ? They are promoting a fund called Portugal opportunities fund and Quadrantis are their fund manager. They expect 13% returns approx from investing in real estate.a
I think a crackdown by the EU is inevitable but believe it will come 1) with those already in the pipeline grandfathered in and 2) not by an EU-edict but instead by behind the scenes pressure on member countries to curtail their GV programs. PT will likely show this by raising the amount of investment necessary, I am guessing.
During the DD on New Age, a key issue concerns me too much-- the assets allocation. Although its Presentation clearly indicates the portfolio , I donāt find any similar description about composition of investment on its Management Regulation. After chasing further , I am told by a sales agent that its Presentation materials are only for explanation on the fund, and not be treated as legal document. Do anyone here know how and what investors can do if the fund manger would not do the same portfolio as they claime on its Presentation? I am not clear on Portugal regulation policy, but understand the marketing materials would have some legal effectiveness in some countries.
Iām trying to schedule an in-person (wow something crazy these times right?) meeting with these guys this or beginning of the next week. Will def ask about this as this and their min management fee are the main concerns.
From what I can tell from these kinds of funds, and you should see this in the MR if you have them, if the manager goes off mandate, the manager can be āfiredā if the unitholders vote to do so. The problem of course is whether the unitholders will care enough to do so. Mostly you are at the mercy of the manager. You interview the manager and see if you believe them. If you donāt like whatās happening you withdraw, if you can.
FWIW, this is just SOP, at least with hedge funds in the US. Thereās a very broad mandate and youāre stuck having to have a bunch of faith.
I think this point is clear but wanted to double check with the community: there might be some legislation changes coming our way in terms of exclusion of Lisbon real estate (and Porto and coastal zones) from the GV program, but this does not effect the underlying assets of the VC funds, right? Your investmentās eligibility for GV is based on that youāve invested into the fund, but the fund might invest into Lisbon real estate for e.g.?
Am I right?
Just asked this the other day. They seem to think the changes wonāt go thru anytime soon. We will see. But regardless, the changes affect individual investors and do not affect current funds.