I have yet reviewed Rock on more details. As I spent too much time on PT CO before(issued by Lince Capital too) and then abandoned it, I am bit cautious on Linceâs styleâtoo more selling points for investors on Presentation, but too generic and broad terms for themselves on Management Regulation.
Add other interesting thing here. I read Portugal Gateway Fund yesterday. Their mgmt fee is 2% (ok with it although it stands high end among other funds), but performance fee is 20% after a hurdle rate of 5% per annum, which stands the lowest hurdle rate among the funds I learn so far. This is very odd. I guess probably they might not worry how to attract investors , and the new capital raising is just added one more sources for existed pipelines within Portugal Venture company. If so, Gateway might be a quite low risk VC comparing with other peers. Pls correct me if something wrong.
Hi all,
I started to look seriously into BlueCrow. Do share the views of Julia, Larry. On the small in size mentioned by @jkandalam , it is not a concern pe see, rather the proportion of the seed investors of 6 brothers vs the size of the fund. If there is an agreement of âlock-inâ period of 6 yrs, by fund closure in 2022, most likly their share will be diluted. Then it should be ok.
On the other aspect of BlueCrow, I understood that is 3% sales channel/agent fee payable to a third party on top of 350KEUR investment in the fund. Is my understanding correct?
On Portugal Gateway, can any one help to advise on the Portugal Gateway setup fee of 5%. Whether it is within the 350KEUR investment or additional?
@rogergan68 ya not a concern really but would have preferred more stable seed investor with less dilution. In this case, dilution is probably ok since seed investor is not super-reliable or useful per se in management. There is a subscription fee but donât think it is over and above 350kE (paid out of NAV I would assume), but can check.
by my understanding, 5% set up fee looks like kind of mgmt administration fee against investorsâ 350K euros subscription. Itâs pretty high , say additional cost of 17.5K euros would be paid by investors.
According to Gatewayâs MR, 5% is their marketing fee. âThe marketing entity, whether inside or outside of Portugal, shall be entitled to receive a fee corresponding to an amount of 5% (five per cent) of the aggregate
nominal value of the participation units subscribed.â Wool comes from the sheepâs back
In this case, this fee will be paid to the marketing entity by the Fund, i.e., investor will not need to fork out 17.5K EUR on top of 350KEUR investment to the fund.
Of cos, Wool comes from the sheepâs back. This only benefit is the initial capital is 350KEur total.
I had a lot of questions and challenges getting documents apostilled (which I did not even know what that was when this began), and translated for the GV. I started a new thread on the Community Board, in case it helps anyone or you want to share your experience and suggestions. Hope it helps someone out there!
Apostille and document preparation for US GV investors
The 6 brothers thing - I see it more as a pro than a con. The brothers are getting kind of a deal, sure, but theyâre also getting instantly diluted by all the new GV money so theyâre going to take a hit on returns for a brief period - consider the fund is now sitting on a mountain of cash returning exactly 0% and has so for months while enough GV capital comes in to start to acquire new properties.
Assuming you believe Duarte, and I have no reason not to, and assuming I understand whatâs really going on here - the brothers are a family that has been BCâs clients at least since 2014, and many of these specific assets have been around that long. Those two SPVs that are listed ARE the SPVs that BC set up for the family long ago, and all that BC did was create a fund and the family swapped the already-operational SPVs into the fund in a like-kind exchange.
If you ask me, the entire thing is really a bunch of bloody clever thinking on BCâs part.
The family wins because they are getting preferential treatment - theyâll dilute out but assuming the fund gets size and is well managed, theyâll get somewhat better returns on their capital than they were with the original assets alone.
BC wins because they get to create a GV fund out of thin air that starts with creds - they arenât a major player in the fund space like Lince, so they canât lean on marketing and reputation alone; theyâre âshowing their workâ instead
GV investors win because you get to invest in what is effectively a stable, operational fund, versus the others that are in capital call process and will be for some N time before enough capital accrues to do something with
From the sounds of it, Duarte is missing a trick here by not talking about the history of the SPVs. Itâs kind of all right there if you look for it.
I donât mean to talk it up but itâs hard for me to not like and respect clever thinking when I see it.
on their term sheet: âSetup-fee: 5% over funds raisedâ . So I suppose it should be paid by investors along with 350K euros subscription. Will double check.
I attended BlueCrow webminar. If I caught correctly, Duarte mentioned sales channel fee of 3%. If anyone plan to speak with him, pls ask and share. TIA
yes, It is indeed. But I still feel fund option is more simple and transparent than RE. From the angle of absolute return , I suppose fund might be a better option than RE at this stage , especially due to consecutively price rising in RE sector over past 5 years.
Fund vs. RE, I am in the same opinion.
However, while selecting fund, minimising total capital outlay is one of my criteria among others which we have been discussing.
I am following this as well. Leaning into PTFunds instead of RE. I am very grateful to what you are sharing. Trying to soak up as much as possible. I have to believe that since the number of PTGV via investment numbers continues to rapidly increase, they cant all just be throwing âspaghetti at the wallâ. Certainly there must be decent options out there. Thank you all for what you post.
Good Day, I am very new to the investigation of all the different funds to invest into. I would ultimately like to invest for the purpose of a GV and would like some kind of Capital security and a return would be much appreciated in these times. My question is has anyone actually invested into one of these funds that can give me some feedback on their experiences.
Of course theyâre still throwing spaghetti at the wall. itâs been what, a year and change? two maybe? since the law was changed to allow it? Portugal is not a huge economy with a massive financial ecosystem. Their major fund managers would be dots on the wall in the US or Britain or Germany.
Certainly people have obtained visas. However there are any number of folks who would happily throw away EUR350k on a âmaybeâ in order to get the visa Iâm quite sure. There are any number of people who make similarly bad investments on any number of other things based on promises. And as Iâve said, this is how VC funds get started - theyâre ideas thrown at a wall and you take a chance on the manager.
