Portugal GV Fund Comparison?

Hmm … well, after spending $40 to mail a letter to Portugal with my signed paperwork, I’m steeling myself to tolerate all of the miscellaneous fees ahead. Note to self: “Focus on the prize!” I’d rather not pay that fee but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the other expenses. Different place, different rules. If they manage to save me a lot of $$$ on the dollar-Euro conversion, all the better.

Your experience with that bankruptcy sounds dreary. Who knows what lies ahead in these turbulent times? I’ll just have faith that everything will be OK; I’ll adapt and survive as circumstances warrant. Even if the whole investment goes away, having options in a changing world is worth a pretty price.

Personally, I was surprised when he said there were no fees. I could not understand that business model. Fidelity, Schwab and Robinhood do it by making money on the trades. Bison Bank also charges small fees to wire money inside Portugal. I have no other choice until I can go to Portugal and open a real bank account in person. I did have to wire money to SEF has part of the application process. That payment was in Portuguese and Nuno took care of it for me (after I signed a document allowing it). Definitely worth the 2 Euros.

The fees are disclosed on page 32 point 1.2 lists a custody fee of 0.02% and the note #1 says that it is charged quarterly

Again, it is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but does not feel nice. I did see similar custody fees with other funds but there were buried in the fund documentation and most likely be rolled into the fund fees.

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It might not feel nice, but I assume you understand the point; it’s not like there’s any other form of income. It’s not like they can make any money on traditional banking operations like, say, taking deposits and lending money to people, thanks ECB - traditional retail banking is practically a money losing proposition.

That said, you’re dealing with the “private banking” side of the house now. Fee-for-service is and always has been SOP IME; any other bank is going to charge you just the same. It’s true in the US too, sometimes.

Note that if you ask the funds during your discussions with them, they will disclose that they are paying the banks and lawyers upwards of 5% per subscription.

The former is similar to the US. Both Citibank and Chase will offer you a ton of services, free theater tickets, and even a free Citibike subscription on an account with no fees. However, they will then push their own funds on clients, and then profit off of the management fees and the entry fees.

I recommend that you ask your fund manager to disclose whether they are paying commission fees to whomever referred you.

On the other hand, it costs banks money to hold your Euros as interest rates are negative at the moment. Banking fees seem fair because there is no guarantee you will subscribe to a fund for which they are making a commission.

Yeah. I’m not sure how I feel about those setup fees; they’re a turnoff certainly. On the other hand NomadGate has no ads and it has a non-zero cost to operate and someone has to pay that, and marketing costs money etc etc. so shrug I’m sure the apartments are 295 not 280 because, well, fee. But what did we expect? But now is the time to do something since we have more leverage than normal - I think the Lisbon/Porto thing has some effect and there is a rush of americans on one hand but coronavirus is definitely dinging things too because people can’t go visit and people are more tentative.

Hi Faizal,

I am new at this board and in the process of understanding which is the best fund to invest in to gain GV. I read in one of the threads that you were compiling a list of potential investment funds. Would you be open to share it. Please let me know and thank you in advance.

Here you go! It was posted prior too but lots of messages have been sent since then.

Great. Thank you. Btw, have you already invested and where are you currently residing. I am in Los Angeles.

There have been many changes to the GV in the past year. I have not seen any website accurately document them until today, so I thought I’d share. (Note: I am not advertising for the group behind the guide, and have no experience personally with them). https://getgoldenvisa.com/portugal-golden-visa-program

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What is the liquidity of these funds? If for some reason you are denied the visa or want to sell your shares after obtaining citizenship, how easily can shares be sold? Will you even recover your initial costs when sold? Seems rather risky if fund starts underperforming and you can’t find a buyer.

You are for the most part locking in for at least 6 or 7 years, sometimes longer. Read the fund details carefully, however most are geared for GV investors and realize you don’t want your money locked in for eternity. That said, I have seen some who keep it for 10 years.
In terms of ability to sell, there is a possibility with most of the funds IF you can find a buyer, which I think would be difficult in most cases since anyone buying in would probably not then have the duration to qualify for a GV. My attitude on this is that the goal is to get permanent residency or citizenship. I hope I make money but would just like to break even. If you are worried about losses, you have to think about what residency/citizenship is worth for you? If a fund lost $100k, would that be worth it for you to obtain the residency? For me, it would be (but I hope I don’t have to test that theory!).

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Some have offered annual distributions, but plan on your money being locked up. If you’re new to this, I’d do some homework (I did) on these types of funds and what they’re investing in. Research what the markets, potential competition looks like, and impact of changes to the visa program are to real estate to some of these funds. I’d never invested in vehicles like these before, but familiarize yourself with terms like IRR, MOIC, PFIC, and FATCA. Assuming you’re a US citizen, talk to your accountant about the implication of the latter two.

My goals for this adventure are 1: Visas for me an my family, 2: capital preservation, 3: capital gains. Would losing 2 and 3 suck, yes. . . but we would have visas and probably passports. 1+2 and maybe 3 means being even more comfortable in another place.

I think everyone here are fairly creative thinkers. We think outside the box and this is why we’re on this site compiling this information. Do your due diligence and weigh your risks!

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Thank you for the insight. I dont mind locking up the funds for several years, but I guess the timing of the fund would have to align with the timing of the permanent citizenship approval. However, my biggest concern would be trying to back out of the fund if the initial visa application is denied.

Hi KA
All of this has been hashed out here multiple times so check the previous posts.
As for your concern, your best option would be to find a company that offers guaranteed buy-back. Those also have been discussed here already.

I add also that if you are thinking of investing hours and hours of time to apply for a GV and 350k Euros into this, then it is worth it to set aside a few hours to read the main 3-4 threads in their entirety before asking questions. I would venture to say that most or all questions have already been answered.

A lot of people here are willing to help but probably not so much if you ask a question without even bothering to read the existing threads.

You can hire a company to handle everything for you but you are at their mercy and from my experience they may not always have your best interest in mind. If you are so wealthy that you don’t care, you should look at Cyprus or Malta citizenship instead. Otherwise, do your research and you should be ok.

You might look at the Mercan real estate projects since they offer buy back options if the visa is denied.

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Anyone looked through Iberis capital and their offerings for the GV?

various discussion far back up-thread.

I did, and chose to go with Iberis Capital and their GreyTech II fund. I found Iberis to the most competent fund managers I’ve come across in this space, and their general investment thesis resonated. I also liked that they are first and foremost a PE company with deep PE experience. Their GreyTech II fund had reasonable fees, and while is a bit higher on the risk/reward, I’m ok with that. I’d recommend reaching out to them on their website. They were very responsive and easy to work with.

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