Portugal GV Fund Comparison?

Residencies & citizenships Portugal Golden Visa šŸ‡µšŸ‡¹
,
852

Also will be good to know if any one in the forum has gotten SEF approval using BPI Portugal FIAA Fund.

853

As I understand it, SEF is currently closed and nothing is getting approved right now.

854

ā€œDeclaration issued by the holding company of the respective investment fund, attesting the
feasibility of the capitalization plan, the maturity of, at least, five years, and the application
of at least 60% of the investment in commercial companies with head office in national
territory;ā€

I am having tough time understanding how BPI Portugal FIAA Fund or IMGA Acoes Portugal funds meet the maturity of 5 years requirement above from SEF. It looks like the funds meet rest of the categories from the document.

855

Joseph, where do you see this information.

https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/covid-19/

According to this the SEF open since April 19th

856

Who was your lawyers? You send the screenshot of lawyers but you finally used them or another firm?
btw I heard that BCP said they have success case with IMGA, if anyone have account there can you ask if it is true?
Thank you

857

hello
what lawyer did you use for IMGA and what bank they open account for you?
as i understood Lawyers matters a lot

858

Hey, this reply is probably a bit too late to be helpful to you, but I am considering these two funds as well. The only thing I donā€™t like about Greytech is their high Min. investment requirement of EUR257K, which makes diversification with another fund a bit difficult.

859

Hi all,

I have put a lot of time analyzing the funds offering and meeting fund managers and would like to share my insights. But first, a disclosure: This text presents my understanding of the data as provided by the funds and some selective opinions. It may contain some non-intentional mistakes or unintentional inaccuracies. If you find any of those, please respond, and let us all know about it.

First, the fund list I considered was of real estate-based funds (and Medcap fund as exception, which although more of a venture capital focused fund, has a special strategy focusing on investing in fully operational private hospitals, creating yields at present, so I considered this fund too). My starting point is the funds listed on this site (please kindly respond with details of any additional funds that are not listed on the excel list posted earlier in this forum).

Next, I tried to narrow the list by paying attention to following aspects:

  • The main fees drawn (usually management fees, subscription fees) and performance reward of each fund.
  • The reputation of the fund manager or formal adviser (when relevant ā€“ when it is a manager-adviser structure fund, see below), the experience, other ongoing activities they run in addition to examined fund. For me, additional financial investment activities, suggest a well-balanced entity that is not here mainly due to GV present driven demand.
  • Also, I did not consider any fund with a minimum over 200K as I plan to split my investment between 3 funds as even as possible.

Based on those aspects I came up with four funds that I found attractive, and I will describe in more details below. You are welcome to respond, comment or correct me. They are: BlueCrowā€™s Growth, Dunas Capitalā€™s Aston Gold, Lince Captialā€™s Navigator II, C2 CapitalPartnersā€™ MedCap.

Aspect 1: The main fees drawn (usually management fees, subscription fees) and performance reward of each fund: This turned out to be a challenging task since there is no standard way used by the funds to define how is their performance fee is calculated. Members of this forum with experience in private equity investments or real estate investments may be aware of the term IRR which is used to calculate the attractiveness of an investment when the predicted cash flow is not steady each year. For readers of this text who do not know about IRR, I seriously recommend you make the effort to learn about it as it is a useful tool to compare between offering of the funds.

There are many funds out there that define their performance reward based on ā€˜nominalā€™ values. Navigator II fund by Lince for example, will split the profit 30:70, after the investor get priority to 3% profit per each year of investment. So, let us imagine a case where you invest Eur 100K in this fund, and it liquidates (closes as planned) after 7 years and crated 50K profit from the 100K you invested. First of course the original 100K is returned to you. Then 21K is paid to you (thatā€™s the nominal 3% of the investment, times number of years invested), then the 29K that is left is split 70:30 between you and the Lince. In total you got 41.3K profit.

Dunas Capitalā€™s Aston Gold fund has a similar structure of performance fee but better to the investors: it is an 80:20 split, and the hurdle rate is defined in real IRR terms (5% - better than the nominal 3% of the Lince).

BlueCrowā€™s Growth fund has a different approach. It distributes all generated income during the funds period to the investor. By the fundā€™s liquidation date, it will collect 10% of the profit made right from the first EUR. However, the dividend income you received along the way does not affect this calculation of profit by the fund end date. So, if your investment of 100K becomes 150K by fund end point, you get 45K back.

It is more focused on providing the investor a steady flow of approx. 6% income from income generating assets- they are aim at assets that already generate that income.

C2 CapitalPartnersā€™ MedCap performance fee also uses true IRR calculation in the definition. They split the profit 80:20 following real IRR 3% preferred interest to investors, with catch up (look up this term if not familiar).

Management fee of BlueCrow/ Dunas/ Lince/ C2 are: 1/0.75/1.25/2 percent annual, respectively.

Subscription fee of BlueCrow/ Dunas/ Lince/ C2 are: 5/2.5/0/1 percent, respectively.

Aspect 2 : reputation, experience, other activities besides GV driven demands. There are two types of funds out there. Funds that are operated by a single entity. [that happens to be the case with my four preferred funds] and funds in which an investment entity termed ā€œadvisorā€ is using a fund management entity as a regulatory compliant infrastructure for the operation. For me personally, the fact those four funds managers are putting their reputation of the actual investment assets selection process is a valuable point.

From C2 CapitalPartners presentation: founded in 2009, ā‚¬ 511M raised since.

From BlueCrowā€™s site: Venture Capital : ā‚¬100m+ under management, 9 venture capital funds. Founded around 2010.

From Linceā€™s site: The Lince Capital Experience: ā‚¬100m+ under management, 10+ venture capital funds. created in 2016.

From Dunas Capitalā€™s Aston Gold presentation: Manages 7 funds. founded in 2003. two of the companyā€™s funds were awarded prizes at the annual gala of the APFIPP (the Portuguese Association of Investment Funds, Pension Funds and Asset Management) in June 2019.

Of notice: C2 Med cap has also local Portuguese investors, and this is also a great sign. BluCrow started as a Portuguese family wealth fund. I am not sure if there are local investors with Navigator II or Aston Gold (I think not).

4 Likes
860

Thanks for the link. What I find interesting is that when I look at IMGA Acoes here, the returns do tend to look very different from the returns here: IMGA AƧƵes Portugal A - Fundo de Investimento Aberto de AƧƵes, PTAFIALM0006:EUR performance - FT.com (although I understand they are true as of 11 June 2021, the difference looks pretty significant). Do you know what might be the cause for this?

861

Hi Tom, can I clarify what is the minimum investment requirement for Greytech, as I am seeing different numbers from different sources?

862

Hi Michael, I found the same pattern with the quotes I got and the cheapest was 500EUR/Yr. Do you feel it might be better to get a tax accountant to do this for you directly as opposed to the law firm? I have reached out to a few independent tax guys to see how the pricing compares to the quotes offered by the law firm.

863

the minimum is 257,500ā‚¬

864

Hi Susan, I am interested. Can yo provide more info on the fund please.

Thanks Waleed

865

It really shouldnā€™t matter. Youā€™re paying someone to receive your mail, basically. (Yes itā€™s a little more than that but.) Just go with the cheapest option, which would be bordr or nifonline. The only reason my lawyer is my rep is because itā€™s included in their fee and I didnā€™t feel like their fee was inflated because of it. If you are planning to have someone do your taxes anyway because you expect to actually have to file taxes, then you might get whoever that is to also be your tax rep as a bonus, but thatā€™s a whole other thing entirely.

1 Like
866

Thanks for all that have been contributing to this thread.

I spent the past 2-3 days on it and it brought me valuable information.

I am leaning to close with Greytech II, my plan is to do some due diligence this week and to have a last call by the end of the week. My reasons to have Greytech II at the top of the list are:

  • Strong management team
  • Portugal based
  • Not a mainly GV fund
  • Already mature in the investment cycle
  • Diversified and not RE dependant
  • Appropriate risk level to my goals

I went through 24 funds or so over the past two weeks, I will list them here with some comments as it might help some of you.

I will be happy to hear your comments on my decisions. Especially if you disagree with any of it.

Shortlist:

Venture Capital:

Real Estate:

Funds that I still need to look into:

Rulled out funds:

Funds that are too young in the investment cycle:

Funds that are too concentrated in one segment:

Funds that I did not like due to structural reasons (high fees, junior management, dubious structures, managed from outside Portugal, etc):

Funds that are too old in the investment cycle:

9 Likes
867

Agreed Jeff. That was my understanding too. My understanding was that, they would still need to file Nil Returns anyways for a non-resident?

868

sure, if you have Portuguese-sourced income that is taxable. Just because youā€™re not resident doesnā€™t mean you canā€™t get taxed.

869

Good list. You found a few I didnā€™t.

You missed Portugal Gateway, Explorer IV, Shilling Founders, and Indico Blue Water. Oxy Capital has one as well whose name escapes me.

870

4 posts were merged into an existing topic: Typical lawyer charges for Golden visa

871

Thanks Jeff.

List updated with rulle dout Explorer (key manager was replaced by his son) and Portugal Gateway ( which I did not like the structure / management team / international focus).

Did you find any of the other funds you mentioned worth a look? Please share their website if you have it easy.