Hi Olga,
Do you know if the few successful cases had physically been living in Portugal for the full 5 years, or were they able to switch to the PR with GV residence title only?
Hi. May I ask in which year you submit your application ? Thanks 
I would ask if you have any updates regarding the new platform for automatic issuing birth certificates after ten step 6 citizenship application ?thank you
March 2022
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I hesitate to post, particularly as a new member, yet this is the very proper thread for discussion on the point that I raise. Note that Iām not seeking to provoke, rather to share in order to learn whether others received similar advice and what more experienced members think of it.
I spoke with many consultants over recent weeks as I narrow in on my GV and investment interests. One of these meetings involved two members of an established, reputable Portugal law firm with a strong immigration focus, and Iāve considered the ensuing advice long enough on my own to conclude mostly just that it deserves further input.
This law practice actively discourages new potential clients from pursuing the GV purely as a means of obtaining only citizenship (in contrast to permanent residency) because merely adhering to GV requirements does not position an otherwise seemingly qualified applicant to survive any citizenship application challenge due to insufficiency of ties, the grounds given by current law for prosecutorial objection.
I understand that it remains not an entirely uncommon PT GVāer goal to gain EU citizenship without beforehand either living or establishing tax residency in Portugal; such is the scenario that I presented. They made clear that this advice obviously does not apply for potential clients who intend to base their life within country and still choose the GV route, perhaps those who do not qualify for options like D7 or do not wish to pursue traditional naturalization.
Slightly stunned, I didnāt very deeply explore the basis for their forming this cautious advice, for example whether from clientsā experiences or from analyzed implications of the anticipated eventual massive waves of citizenship applications based on timing of SEF/AIMA backlog processing. This must be a firmly held position, though, since in advance of booking I announced my specific GV interest and they still granted me this initial consultation rather than simply emailing an explanatory rejection. This advice given so freely further cuts against their own financial interest of earning fees for GV workāmoney clearly motivates so many āadvisorsā within this space, some of whom both charge service fees and receive referral commissions. The degree of this firmās disinterested independence sways me to perceive its advice as refreshingly honest straight talk.
Which firm/lawyers I spoke with is not the point, Iām not dropping names. Rather, know that I post within this thread that includes contribution from some of this forumās heavy hitters simply to spur discussion of the advice as I relay it: that itās not sound to newly begin pursuing GV solely as a means of obtaining citizenship without intending actual residency.
I thank you in advance for your constructive thoughts about this view.
For naturalization I believe this requirement was removed from the law, see @cj807 post here Portuguese Citizenship application after 5 years of Golden Visa - #194 by cj807
Itās a potential issue if you have minor children although there are ways for them to prove connection, e.g. have your children hold GV for 5 years and enroll in school in PT.
Thanks, anonymous69.
Please see post # 111 in this thread above contributed by sm33, maybe this is a link to or near it: Portuguese Citizenship application after 5 years of Golden Visa - #115 by sm33)
Is this correct? If not, I might clarify with that law firm and update my post.
Thanks for your post and welcome to the forums.
I would ask the lawyers on what legal basis is the prosecutor objecting to the application for nationality by naturalisation, as opposed to by act of will.
The provision for objection by the State on the grounds of lack of effective connection to the national community is set out in Chapter IV, Article 9(1)(a) of the Nationality Act, but I believe this applies only to āeffect of willā cases, which typically relate to children. For naturalisation cases (including the ARI), the requirement for āeffective connectionsā was dropped from the Nationality Law in 2006.
A number of people in these forums have obtained nationality based solely on their ARI status and language tests. Are the lawyers you spoke to seeing cases where the prosecutor is objecting, and are these being litigated?
Iām not a lawyer, but wrote up my analysis here a year ago:
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As sad as it may be, however entirely natural, you will find that most of the times you would be better informed and knowledgeable about your matter than your (prospective or hired) lawyers, simply for the reason that it is YOUR matter for you, while it is SOMEONE ELSEās matter for your lawyers.
Same situation with any other service provider by the way, ranging from your plumber to your accountant/tax advisor.
Hope this makes sense.
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Definitely seems worth checking with them if they are aware of the legislation change, and whether they have actually seen refusals in practice since that legislation change.
In process, Iāll update if and when I get that reply. Thanks to all!
Ask the lawyer why anyone would get a GV if they plan to reside in PTā¦makes no sense.
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Because they donāt know whether theyāll be able to move to Portugal when they intend to? Because theyāre worried they might eventually need to move back to their home country for a period of time? Because they anticipate traveling a lot?
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Because you spend time in PT in such a way that you are not a tax resident.
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Why move to PT at all then?
Because you want to retire there?
Because they have dependants who donāt intend to reside in Portugal?
To follow up on my long post a few steps above, I questioned that original law firm for a bit more insight, but never heard back from my email. On the other hand, two different lawyers in Lisbon pointed out the risk of citizenship laws changing during oneās lengthy GV process. Thereās the possibility of such change to the disfavor of GV holders, despite most recent changes enhancing the ability to apply for and get citizenship. The probability of any change that disfavors citizenship grants to GV holders or any others likely depends largely on the government in place at any given time.
To review, once one applies for a status, the rights of that application wonāt get revoked for that pending application even if laws change (such as with former real estate GV investors still qualifying). The issue is that the GV applicant has about 5 yearsāfrom either paid application or biometrics, yet to be determinedābefore qualifying for citizenship application. One only gets protected by the no-retroactive rights reduction after submitting the application claiming the rights, so this 5+ years window leaves room for citizenship law changes to possibly enter the picture.
For example, suppose political winds blow back the burden of meeting a subjective test for āeffective connectionā into the citizenship applicantās lap (this having been removed many years ago for naturalization cases, as you know). Some many of us as GV holders might face more difficulty attaining citizenship in such a case, entirely depending upon how we spent our residency 5 years relative to Portugal.
This amounts to speculation, admittedlyāyet, this is a real risk no matter its likelihood, and thus relevant to some of us considering whether GV gets us where we ultimately want to end up. One of the other lawyers even quipped, perhaps AIMA and the Ministry of Justice will just be way too busy over the coming 5 years to bother themselves seeking any policy changes! Iāll add my pure supposition that regardless of any sitting governmentās leanings, ā¬7+Billion and growing getting freely tossed into a relatively small economy against just 13,000 or so GV applications, not all of whom seek citizenship versus sticking with permanent residency status, would be a pretty big political deal to simply scare offā¦and I imagine lobbyists for the GV industry might work hard to preserve the status quo.
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My lawyer claims the 5 year clock starts at time of fee payment rather than biometrics. I followed up asking why she is sure of this and she replied:
We are still waiting for the specific regulations to this new law to be published, but we have information from Immigration Office it is counted from online application.
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I assume you mean the initial fee and not the fee for the residency card?
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