I havenât tried yet. But my lawyer said that she can put in an application. So this is the route I will be going.
Yes, I agree. My lawyer recommends getting the CDT and to then proceed from there.
This (somewhat awkwardly written) article by Andreia Morgado Duarte, Senior Associate at CCA Law in TPN today suggests the same:
As a result, citizens whose residence permit application was submitted more than five years ago may benefit from this recent interpretation. It is advisable that, before submitting an application for Portuguese nationality, they obtain a Certificate from AIMA confirming the duration of their residence in Portugal.
But when can you get the CdT? My lawyers said it only goes up to the date of request, so if you request it before it would show 5 years, it is useless. But it takes 2 months to get. So if you shouldnât apply until you get the CdT back, at that point you are at 5 years and 2 months?
The CdT is only for your peace-of-mind. When you apply for citizenship IRN does their own check with AIMA.
It is not only for peace of mind. It is a protection in the future if there is a conflict.
If IRN refuses your application due to insufficient 5 years of residency, then you can bring your case to court. With the CdT, you have a solid ground to fight back.
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Vanessa, could you explain your position? What is your conclusion about the start of the five-year period based on? Hereâs a screenshot from correspondence with one of my lawyers who has the opposite position. As you can understand, this position is not unique - I would say out of 4 lawyers Iâve spoken with, they all share this view.
Could you explain to me personally why such different interpretations exist, and is the legal system really so contradictory that such dramatic differences in law interpretation can exist?
Could you also explain why those lawyers who are waiting for regulations arenât concerned about the lack of regulations and donât take a proactive position, but instead just wait and somehow rely on the Sephardic community (?)? I understand this question is more for them, but I canât get an answer from them.
Perhaps Iâm misunderstanding something about the specifics of Portuguese jurisprudence - could you clarify this for me?
How can the same legal provision be interpreted so differently by professionals?
My understanding is that the regulations havenât been written but AIMA is treating the start date as the submission date per their recent conference with the legal community
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Were these lawyers on AIMAâs 14-Jan 2025 âSessĂŁo de Esclarecimento sobre ARIâ Zoom call? See interpretations from that call here and here.
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There is a saying âAsk five economists and youâll get five different answers - six if one went to Harvardâ. Legal opinions fall within this bracket. To avoid different practical interpretations, a âregulamentoâ is often, but not always, published to assist interpretation of a Portuguese law which is in force. The changes to the Nationality law (already debated in Parliament, so the intention is/was clear at the time) are small, but important. Legal opinion is divided on waiting for the regulamento to be published, or not. But the law already has legal force.
AIMA has not waited, as is clear from the following articles, all but one in Portuguese. Right click for a translation in your browser, if you want to read a translated version.
As one or two of the articles advise, get a Contagem de Tempo 5 years after your first payment for ARI. You donât need a lawyer to get the Contagem de Tempo; you can do it yourself. See whether AIMA counts it as 5 years, and if AIMA confirms that you have resided for a minimum of 5 years, say goodbye to the 4 lawyers who took an opposing view!
No need to have any angst about this one, or get any more legal opinions. The only relevant one is AIMA - who have already begun to act, although we donât know the exact interpretation on ARI (ie if submission date or payment date). Begin to see it as an unexpected gift from the numerous Brazilians - who will be applying for citizenship at the same time as you - thereby lengthening the waiting time for all citizenship applications, including yours, to reach their conclusion.
Google is your friend long before that - feed keywords such as contar prazo de residencia em portugal para cidadania as in the articles which also use keywords to draw people to read.
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Thanks for this. Can I ask what you mean by
get a Contagem de Tempo 5 years after your first payment for ARI.
I thought the CdT only stated the number of years youâve resided, rather than stating the start date of your residence? Therefore could only be useful once youâve reached 5 years from the point of application?
Ideally I donât want to apply for a CdT after hitting 5 years as I understand they take months to arrive. I want to get my citizenship application submitted at the first possible moment.
Everyone will make different calculations on whether or not to get the Contagem de Tempo, or spend the time waiting for the CdeT. One of the journals I linked to had a picture of a recent one which gave a little more detail than it used to.
The judgement is that of the applicant on peace of mind vs speed.
Since a number of people may go for peace of mind- ie not take the chance that AIMA says to IRN that the applicant has not yet reached 5years- they may prefer to wait until they get some certainty before getting the citizen application in.
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Ah okay - well if the CdeT includes the start date then that changes everything. As you could apply for it before you hit 5 years, but still use it as âproofâ that AIMA told your 5 year clock started on X date.
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Exactly ⊠
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What does exactly mean?
get a Contagem de Tempo 5 years after your first payment for ARI.
Does it mean that analysis fee or card fee or something else?
Analysis fee of âŹ500 something.
Itâs a clever saying, but in this case I disagree. While economists and lawyers may argue about details, they generally agree on fundamental principles.
In this situation, The split in the legal community seems to stem not from differing interpretations of the law itself, but from differing views on when and how it should be implemented.
This goes beyond normal professional disagreement about legal nuances, itâs about the basic principle of whether a clear law in force should be applied immediately or wait for lower-level regulations, which, by law, should have been issued within 90 days. (But they werenât!)
but 4 of my lawyers donât see it this way and strongly advise against applying for citizenship, saying the required time period hasnât been met yet.
While youâre referring to the same article, circulated across all newspapers, are you suggesting I should rely on a journalistâs professional opinion rather than a lawyerâs? Do you really think so? By the way, almost simultaneously with these articles being published (thanks for the Google suggestion, I had read them before you mentioned them), I received my CDT which didnât account for the waiting time. Yet the news was already full of general enthusiasm.
My main point is that I I canât wrap my head around such negligent disregard for laws, deadlines, and the legal communityâs overall indifference to these violations - as if theyâre from a third-world country, not me.
The intention was to provide hope, but I see your hopes have already been dashed by the CdT received without accounting for the waiting time. Unlike another example shared here, which was from Leiria.
Very disappointing - for you and the rest of us.
Worth trying elsewhere?
Would it be worth specifying the date of CdT application, and location of the AIMA office in the dedicated thread? Detail shared being one of this forumâs strengths? Helps in knowing which offices apply the law for ARI, and which do not, or inconsistently.
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