Will you apply Portugal Golden Visa knowing what you know today?

Can I swear on this thing?
_ _ _ _ NO.

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Given the delays, increase in fees, and the elimination of the NHR, I would not participate. There are better options for Europe.

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Can you elaborate? What program is nearly as generous in terms of cost and time on the ground required?

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ARI visas are not being permitted to renew online for Q4 expirations. The new law is changing ARI visas to D2 visas, but the D2 visa requirements have not changed, so further renewals may be impossible. Prices are rising substantially, while service is still dreadful. SEF is being abolished, morale is low, and the new, post-“more housing” renewal regulations will not be written for quite some time. Yes, the original law is on our side, and retroactive laws are against the European ethos, but the Portuguese absolute majority PS government will pull no punches as it scapegoats us for its own failures.

For anyone holding a vintage 2021/2022 ARI card, I give 50/50 odds that we’ll be permitted to renew twice and apply for citizenship after 5 years of legal residency. I’ll raise the odds to 80/20 for anyone willing to drop the ARI visa at year 4 and switch to a D7 (if eligible), subsequently fulfilling the requirement to pay income taxes and be in the country for 8+ months per year.

Another frequent poster often cites a government minister’s televised statement that there will be no retroactive policy changes for existing golden visas. Little known fact: when government ministers give press conferences, the lies they tell do not have the force of law.

Would I still go through with it if I knew then what I know now? I can’t decide. There’s no happy future in the old home country.

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Our circumstances at the time meant we were not able to apply for the D7 so we went the fund route. In hindsight I think we would have taken different decisions and then tried to apply for the D7. We wouldn’t go through the GV route knowing what we know now.

It’s time to revisit this question.

If they end up backdating the “clock” to when you make payment, I will take that as a fair trade for all the delays.

If they make it biometrics or not at all, I will feel very taken advantage of and wish I still had my $$!

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This is /thread right here folks! If they right the wrong by making our wait time from the initial submission count? Yes. If that doesn’t happen? Then it was all a scam.

If not an outright scam then a very poorly run program surrounded and fed by scammers (websites, lawyers, etc., who provide overly optimistic appraisals of the GV situation to new clients (then presumably overcharge them for many years of doing very little except replying to emails as slowly as possible…)

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I can’t fully agree with you. When it was started, it was a brilliant way to recover from the deep economic abyss Portugal found itself after the meltdown of 2008. It was, in fact, a very well-defined process that functioned quite good and was rather predictable right up to COVID. Then, it was completely thrown in a disarray and never recovered. Portugal has found itself in such a rigid bureaucratic quagmire that it couldn’t manage, and it still lacks the experience to maneuver around the self-imposed obstacles to resolve the situation. This is partly cultural, partly socialistic, partly overly bureaucratic.

I used to blame them, but after living here for almost a year and a half, I can safely attest they simply can’t resolve such issues expeditiously. They are trying, but it will be… na próxima semana, como sempre…

Websites, lawyers, etc. - that’s different story. Some (websites) do not update their content often enough to reflect the reality. Others (lawyers) always try to paint an overly-optimistic outlook, neglecting to disclose the risks. And the vast majority of real-estate agents have no morals in any country, Portugal or otherwise.

One thing to keep in mind that if you really did not want to live in Portugal at some time in your life, that was certainly not a programme for you!

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Yes I’m sure the 7 days/year stay requirement primarily attracts people who want to move to Portugal and not those who just want an EU passport…and is marketed as such! :joy:

The program did seem to have been run better pre-pandemic, but the point stands about the leech-economy surrounding it.

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Not an unfair assessment of events.

@ohbee - it would be great if every player in every industry acted morally sound but, ultimately, it’s the responsibility of the consumer to do their due diligence. A positive aspect of the October '23 changes is that it removes the unregulated (real estate) players from the market.

This program was specifically tailored (and marketed) to people who did not want to live in Portugal, hence the very minimal physical presence requirements. It’s an investment visa. Those who wanted to live in Portugal had the option of a D7 visa.

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Well, yes and no! I would think the original intent was to let you start on your long-term visa process ahead of your eventual move, hence rather laxed stay requirements. It was probably expected that you would want to live there at some point of your life. Portugal never restricted anyone from buying a property there. Most people could obtain a 90-day tourist visa and many (like US, UK, CA) do not even need one. Often these visas can also be extended. And so, what would be your incentive of going through the expenses of GV in the first place, never mind the bureaucratic maze and associated delays?

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Well, that is how it is marketed by third parties, but it was probably not the original intent of the Portuguese government. If you don’t want to live in Europe, what is the point of EU passport? Get a tourist visa instead - it is much cheaper, faster, and easier. And you could always invest in a Portuguese real estate, GV or not. You can do so even now, with no issues whatsoever, just that a real estate purchase would no longer qualify you for the GV.

You might want to live in Europe, just not Portugal.

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I think for many people the primary incentive is a Schengen area passport, not moving to Portugal. There are plenty of paths to citizenship in Europe but Portugal’s requirements are some of the easiest to fulfill (at least that is how they designed it on paper, setting aside the bureaucratic problems they have had in implementation).
And I think the main ‘intent’ of Portugal’s government with this GV program was an injection of foreign capital.

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…and that is why you might want to consider where you want to live before going through the Portuguese GV. There are many more options available which do not include substantial cash outlay into real estate, risk funds, or art donations, plus substantial visa expenses. And if you ultimately want to have EU citizenship, than you are also investing into a language with rather limited presence in Europe, which is hardly simple to learn.

Yep, plus having the option to do this but still being many years away from being anywhere close to making a decision about where, when, if. It provides optionality.

Or indeed not having to ever commit to living in one country in the EU for a long period. If you don’t already have a passport from another EU country, the Portuguese passport will allow you to move around within the EU as needed. Some of us on this NomadGate forum are in fact nomads :slight_smile:

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