After much reading and apprehension, I'd like to ask for some context heavy feedback about starting my GV process

Interesting. I have no idea whether that works for purposes of GV, but I guess you will find out in a few years time. But you want to study this on the US side carefully, particularly the prohibited transactions rules, assuming you have a custodian that would do this. I read some of the web pages touting this, and they are laughably wrong on some things if not downright misleading.

I met with a 360 support firm today, including in house legal and investment team. They were candid that all artistic routes in the EUR 250k cultural GV are effectively donations and you wonā€™t get money back. To qualify, any project needs to be approved by authorities (GPAC) and they have yet to see a cultural project with investment construct get approved, only donation, though there are constantly new types of projects presenting. They said there are a lot of published materials that ā€œguaranteeā€ things and itā€™s misleading to-date. So the hope I had in my above comment for well-funded foundations out there currently is unrealistic.

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Definitely see the value in probing both routes while Iā€™m discussing with support / law firms so I can compare notes and experiences between them. First, just wanted to get a better grasp on the reality of the ā€œtoilet flushā€. For me, the Fund route puts a lot of pressure on my other investments / assets in the US and Iā€™m not sure I can tolerate that level of risk exposure to those assets for such an extended lock up. So I feel I need to weigh the option of ā€œexpensingā€ the 250k and making it back, ideally serving EU clients. More of an investment in me/ gamble on my ability to grow business with little cash flow from that business now. Donā€™t get me wrong - certainly exploring other options.

TLDR. My only comment which I have said many times. The process will be a lot more expensive and time consuming than what you understand. Unless you have mountains of money to spare and a lot of free time, donā€™t bother.

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Here is an idea:

Develop a script based on the contents of this forum of trials and tribulations, agonies, disappointments, frustrations, andā€¦ perhaps an eventual success story of a GV applicant. Feature difficulties of decision making, add unscrupulous and misleading information by third-party ā€œfacilitatorsā€, describe slow responses of lawyers featuring ā€œna prĆ³xima semanaā€ syndrome, incorporate the dramma of uncertainty of multiple conflicting governing law articles and intrinsic lack of clarity. Donā€™t forget to include the apathy and blatant disregard for own rules by SEF/AIMA, and certainly touch on the transition from SEF to AIMA with additional layer of bureaucratic delays and inefficiencies it has caused. And the last, but not least - a path to developing proficiency in Portuguese language, preparing and ultimately taking CAPLE exam.

Then, locate a Portuguese-based studio that would be willing to screen this masterpiece, in both English and Portuguese for more authentic representation, and sponsor it via GV Artistic Investmentā€¦

I would guarantee you that it would result in at least 200% return on your investment as those of us who are already participating in GV programme would be eager to see it again and again. Who knows, it might even be a nominee for the Best Foreign Language Film at the next Academy Awards (for Best Costume Design), and so - sky is the limit!..

However, no guarantee yet on the eventual success of securing a Portuguese passport!..

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Not to forget approval of the project for GV program eligibility by the authorities. Can only hope sense of humor is strong!

Sorry, overlooked that one! :slight_smile:

Here is the title of the film: ā€œThe Gilded Visa - The Age of Discoveryā€!

The ā€œGildedā€ because of a thin golden layer that is applied over wrought iron - the very same material used by Portuguese for boat anchors, shackles, and chains during the Middle Ages. And for the Age of Discovery - run the Spice Root backwards, under the command of an intrepid captain by the name of Allbyquircky. Start in Macau, make a port call in Goa, meet with Muslim trades in Muscat, stop by Cape of Good Hope, all while picking up few ā€œpassengersā€ along the way as the armada makes it treacherous journey. Then, once the armada is blown way off course in the North Atlantic, rescue some stoned Americans in the life rafts, and a few British whose mighty barque was wrecked by Brexit. Use the creative license to insert few Russians as spies and infiltrators of all the above-listed nations (we are good at that). Now, head for Belem, encountering massive headwinds, storms, etc. Turn Belem Tower into Ellis Island, et voilĆ  - the journey is complete! :smiling_face_with_tear:

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Iā€™m pursuing the same investment avenue using SDIRA managed by custodianship in the US. Similarly, Iā€™ve learned that itā€™s possible to use SDIRA monies through a US LLC to a Portugese LDA and fund the investments that way.

Hereā€™s the catch - The LDA is considered to be a business account in Portugal and it requires tax representation. Based on my research, it costs 2,000-2,500 Euros per year for that service!!! That adds up quicklyā€¦ Thatā€™s ridiculous, it only costs $400-$500 a year in the US and I donā€™t understand why the fees are so high in Portugal; they really donā€™t do much for the representation! Iā€™m curious, have you looked into the LDA fees, are you seeing the same thing?

Along with all the other risks donā€™t forget the exchange rate risk. I invested ā‚¬500k in 2021 (converted from USD) in a real estate fund. The fund has done fine (6% on a mark to market basis) but Iā€™m down overall since the euro has declined 20 % in the meantime. Maybe Iā€™ll breakeven which wouldnā€™t be a horrible outcome. Maybe I wonā€™t.

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This is exactly the case, reading your assessment of whatā€™s happening, as someone whoā€™s seeking a second citizenship myself, I have to say: you are making a very emotional assessment and decision. Not a logical one. If you are concerned about climate change, healthcare, social safety - you should invest in bunker or some meditation classes( I am being serious). I donā€™t expect anything to happen to the US in our lifetime, it will continue to be a powerhouse of the economy, innovation and military power. And I am old enough not to worry about climate change to drastically change our way of life here, in the United States.

If you are young - focus on your career and invest 500k into the ALL US index fund with 0% management fee and thank me 10years from now. US passport will remain to be much stronger than the European one. Unless you are planning for retirement or moving your country permanently - donā€™t focus on the wrong thing and good luck! :heart:

I guess from the context you may be referring to the US vs. EU long-term retention probability?
Because purely on ā€œpassport strengthā€ there are 30 European countries ahead of the US currently.

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I cannot think of anything positive about US Passport except the right to live and work in US. What other advantages does it have over the EU passports?

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To know for certain for the rest of your life youā€™ll have to file tax returnsā€¦ :sweat_smile::sweat_smile::sweat_smile:

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Let me clarify, what I meant is the right to live and work in the US, which is much more significant than the passportā€™s strength in my view.

  1. The person above mentioned he is an engineer, he has a lot more opportunities and much higher wages in US
  2. Economically, US has a much higher economic prospects than Europe
  3. Itā€™s a much more isolated country, if you are worried about international conflicts and the most powerful one
  4. Itā€™s the most diverse country, nowhere else immigrants are treated like they are in the US
  5. Territorially, think of US are European zone where you have a choice of 50 countries but they all speak English
    I love Europe for many different reasons, but leaving US because of the ā€œclimate changeā€ doesnā€™t seem like a sound investment to meā€¦
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I am thinking of the passport itself. I am not comparing US with Europe.

All reasons you mentioned do not point out any advantage of US passport over EU passport.

In fact, any European citizen or any engineer from the third world countries can apply for a job in US. Whether he gets the job from US or not is a question of ability and qualification. In the end of the day, if he gets the job in US and work in US, he will receive the salary from US and never has to worry about tax filling when he is no longer living in the US. Unless US starts implementing a new law that jobs are only for the Americans, then maybe for someone who is looking for economic opportunity, it is worth to consider the option a) having a US passport and working in the country and filling the tax for the rest of life; or b) having a non-US passport and zero tax filling when not living in the country.

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Thatā€™s not how the job market works in the US. You need visas to work here. Itā€™s a very complicated process to get one, even harder one to maintain.
The bottom line is - you canā€™t work or live freely in the states without passport.

Thatā€™s why I was saying one could apply. And to be able to get the job is a question of ability & qualification. I did not say anything about working in US without obtaining a correct visa & permit. If an engineer is excellent in his field, he will be able to get the job from US and the american company will sponsor his visa.
Not only in US, all countries (except between EU countries) require work permit and its special type of visa accordingly.

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Of course, if you are a genius you are likely welcome anywhere.

But as much as we all want our kids to be geniuses, thatā€™s hardly something that can be guaranteed. Thatā€™s why I want to give my kids a few options of passports, so they have more optionality than I did :slight_smile:

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Maybe. I think this is a little idealistic though.

Not all firms can afford to deal with the legal crap required to sponsor an H1B or try to find other paperwork avenues.

Those that might be able to afford it may choose to not bother and choose the lesser person whoā€™s less effort to onboard, for perfectly valid reasons.

Having to be on a visa presents difficulties for the visa holder - consider all the folks with H1B who have to hunt for another employer after being let go for whatever reason, and end up taking the lesser job just to hang onto the visa.

And letā€™s face it, not everyone is excellent. Some of us are merely so-so, decent, or really good but not fantastic. If the bar is too high for all but a handful to ever make it across, what good is it for most people to even talk about.

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I think a lot of people are making visceral decisions based on recent events that seem to make sense but might be somewhat reactionary, I agree.

However, all things about life are fairly uncertain. There is a chance that the US goes in a direction that OP doesnā€™t like and wonā€™t want to live with. You believe the US will continue to be a powerhouse etc, but at the end of the day thatā€™s an opinion; OP can have their own as well based on whatever source of information they have. (Or, read zerohedge for a while - youā€™ll think the US is going to hell in a handbasket AND about to experience a magical boom, both at the same time!) OP is not talking about tossing their US passport either, merely pursuing additional options.

Not all choices need to make economic sense, either. I detest the lack of decent coffee in the US, personally, and the way a lot of things are handled; being able to go to any of 50 states just means that I end up with 50 different options for bad coffee and unsafe motorcycle riding and hyperactive consumerism. Iā€™ve wanted to move to Europe for years now. I havenā€™t, because of money, and there are times I regret that choice.

I think OP has a point in the idea that mobility is a currency as well. There is a case to be made for ā€œget your options now while they are still availableā€, given the turn in tides on how RBI/CBI are viewed, especially in Europe but elsewhere as well I believe. I personally would be skeptical of sinking large chunks of ones wealth into such a scheme but everyone has to make their own choices based on their own imperatives and value systems, and if you are younger you have more run room to correct for those kinds of mistakes too.

My biggest concern with OP was simply that one is making a lot of assumptions about the EU as a whole given their stated goal, as opposed to questioning their pessimistic view of the world. I would not be surprised if OP ends up disappointed and in N years their Portuguese passport - if actually successfully acquired, no certain thing, 5 years is a long time - is not going to get them what they wanted. There are quite a number of negative dynamics in play any more. I am anxiously awaiting for my clock to run down so I can get my citizenship app in before the world changes yet again, and concerned that it will do so sooner than even I imagine.

This is what I was pointing at. OP made their judgment and accepts that risk, so all good.

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