How I Ended Up With Optimize

I’ve benefited greatly from all the commentary on this forum, so I thought I’d share my experience just in case it proves useful to anyone.

In setting up my Golden Visa application, my goals were to a) get a responsive, experienced law firm and b) make a conservative investment that will return my $500,000 to me (ideally adjusted for inflation, after costs).

I interviewed quite a few law firms. Honestly, I don’t believe there’s a significant difference. It’s pretty easy to file the paperwork. I went with a law firm that was not at the top-rung price-wise and seemed to have a large, engaged professional staff (so that I don’t have to talk to the attorney for routine matters). I don’t want to name the firm here but it’s one of the bigger names. Prices to do the administrative work on the initial filing ranged from $4,000 to $7,000.

The investment is a more complicated decision. As I said, I’m not trying for high returns, just to get my investment back at the end of the process - in an ideal world, inflation-adjusted, after expenses.

I was skeptical of the promised returns of some funds, especially those run by foreign (non-Portuguese) firms. I was amazed how many Americans, Canadians, South Africans, British, etc have gotten involved in the process. I feared it would be too easy for them to walk away and leave investors in a lurch.

The real estate funds were interesting, but I didn’t have time to investigate which projects I believed in enough to put my money into them. I would have felt more comfortable if I knew the areas where the project was going. It seems the real estate projects are more or less a loan to the company to complete the project and do not promise high returns.

I settled on Optimize for several reasons. It is a Portuguese firm with roots in the country. The vast majority of Optimize investors are locals, so Golden Visas are not the main business. The Golden Opportunities fund simply invests about 70% into the largest Portuguese traded companies and 30% in Portuguese bonds. Portuguese firms are generally more on the value than growth side of the spectrum, many companies in the fund in food distribution/energy/telecom/agriculture. They pay decent dividends but are not fast growers. This fit my conservative approach and counterbalances the more growth-oriented stocks that dominate my holdings (like GOOG) in the S&P500.

Optimize has enacted several cost-saving measures. The firm does not require that you open an account at the local investment bank. Optimize does the US dollar-to-Euro exchange for you at the interbank rate (.1%), saving perhaps 1-2%.

Optimize is open-ended, so you can keep your investment there as long as you want. If I suddenly pass away, my heirs can immediately divest the funds. If a better fund comes along, I can make a switch at any time. After the 5 year period, I can divest at my own pace in order to lessen the tax bite (from the IRS in the US). I really didn’t like the funds with a required subscription period of time. Several funds seem to use lofty goals, such sustainable agriculture or environment, more as a marketing ploy than due to any conviction. I did regret the lack of a definitive list of all GV investment options, including fees.

There are also several downsides to investing with Optimize. There’s a 5,000 euro subscription fee and 1.8 % annual expense ratio. If you invested in Portugal through other means, you could save the subscription fee and at least 1%/year. Low-cost investing that is not common like it is in the Anglo-American word.

I estimate for one person the government/legal fees will run about 25,000 euros, and the investment fees(that is, beyond what I would pay if I invested similarly in the US) about 35,000 euros. So for me that’s the cost of getting EU citizenship. Sounds like a lot but every other investment had its own costs (and risks). If in 5-7 years when I can divest, my investment in the fund is 550,000-700,000 euros, I’ll be satisfied. If it’s significantly lower than 500,000 euros, then I probably would have also lost money in any non-Golden Visa investment as well.

If the Portuguese government drags its feet and doesn’t issue the Golden Visa for 2 years, I’ll consider that a win, since I’ll only have to renew the visa once before applying for citizenship. This is based on the newish rule that we can all apply for citizenship at the 5-year mark, regardless when the Golden Visa was issued.

Finally, I was struck by all the shady characters who lurk on these forums (also FB, Reddit) and want to make money off Golden Visa investors. On a chat, someone might act like a fellow Golden Visa applicant, then reveal that he wants to refer me to a lawyer or help me secure a fund (for a commission, presumably). Some relationships among immigration lawyers, investment advisors and GV fund managers seemed chummy to an unhealthy degree. It’s really a buyer-beware environment, and sites like this one are extremely useful.

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Please let me know via DM if this happens with anyone active on Nomad Gate, we take this kind of self-promotion very seriously.

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I’m interested, however after speaking with my consultant, I found out that Optimize indirectly invests in real estate through banks, which includes exposure to mortgages and REITs. Please consult your lawyer regarding this. By nature, open-ended funds can sometimes invest indirectly outside your control and may exceed their stated scope — so caution is advised.

Right now, I’m deciding between Oxy and other options. Oxy, to me, feels like a literal pillar — if anything were to happen to them, it could seriously destabilize the entire Portuguese Golden Visa framework, much like Lehman Brothers did (not in terms of practices, but in terms of systemic impact and influence)

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Thanks for the well laid out reasoning. We also are investing in optimize - it should be final next week. Would we want to start a new investment group for optimize now that there are more than a handful of investors on here?

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Yes, that would be wothwhile.

That would be useful.

I requested a new fund group for Optimize.

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Thanks for sharing. I invested in Optimize Fund two years ago and am quite satified with the performance. It would be a great idea to lauch a Optimize specific group, as I would like to explore issues in redemption, taxation and inheritance.

Good points on all fronts!

Question - what “means” are you referring to with a lower than a 1% subscription fee/management fee? The donation route? In terms of funds I’ve seen under 1.8 for a management fee, but the subscription fee has been at least 1.5. Granted - I think trusting the fund (eek-I don’t trust any of them I’ve talked to!) to perform is more important than the fees, but at this point the majors that I’ve encountered all have some glaring red flags waving and I’m absolutely a growth/return person. Someone else commented on Oxy and I did like that they aren’t a “cater to GV participants” fund.

If a US investor simply wanted to invest in a basket of Portuguese stocks, he could buy the an Exchange Traded Fund called Global X MSCI Portugal ETF (PGAL), which has an expense ratio of .61% and no subscription fee.

I hadn’t come across that one - thank you!
Wait - and this one is GV approved??

My take on this is that it’s likely that your consultant is steering you to investments that pay higher commissions. The fact that Optimize owns shares of banks that issue mortgages does not in any way make it ineligible for the Golden Visa.

We asked their team for a comment regarding your consultant’s statement, to which they replied the following:

Optimize Portugal Golden Opportunities Fund is a UCITS-regulated open-ended fund, meaning it’s subject to strict portfolio disclosure rules and risk limitations. It does not invest directly or indirectly in real estate development, which is what the law restricts.

Investing in banks — even those that issue mortgages — is considered a financial sector investment, not a real estate one. The law clearly distinguishes between economic activity that may involve real estate use (like a bank branch or an industrial property) versus real estate asset holding or speculation, which is not allowed.

So to summarize:

Optimize Portugal Golden Opportunities Fund:

  • Does NOT invest in property development

  • Does NOT own or flip real estate

  • Is a UCITS-regulated fund, audited and fully transparent

  • Invests primarily in listed Portuguese companies, including banks, infrastructure, and energy firms

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Nope, that one is not GV-eligible. It needs to be a fund, not an ETF, and it needs to be headquartered in Portugal, which that one isn’t.

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There’s a group you can join here now:

What I was trying to show is how much more it costs to use GV investment vehicles than non-GV investment vehicles that do the same thing. So I consider the excessive management fees a cost of getting the GV/citizenship.

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Ah gotcha - yes, absolutely. For (VC/PE) funds I’ve never had to pay a subscription fee, so that part has been an unpleasant surprise. Same as you though, I just look it as the cost of the GV.

I liked optimize but did the start a company route!!

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@MadMartinB – probably not a conversation for this thread, but I would love to hear more about your experience with starting a company! Do you write about it anywhere on this forum? Thanks!

Just posted it