Donāt know if people saw it yet but the PT government has decided to indeed enforce the previously passed, then delayed, plan to not allow GV Investment in Lisbon and Porto for those purchasing RE on their own to achieve the GV. It will take effect at the end of 2020.
My understanding is that this will not affect RE funds. Has anyone heard differently?
My first priority will be given to BC and Gateway as alternative. Given the travel restriction, do you have any time line to invest.
My friend will be in Lisbon in 1 month for permanent resident permit application of her family. I have asked her to check her lawyerās experience on fund route. The lawyer fee does vary a lot.
Another point is whether we should engage a lawyer to do due diligence of the fund, which may cost additonal 4000Eur.
Even though the changes may not restrict GV funds from investing in homes from those markets, it may affect the appreciation of that real estate by reducing demandāwhich is clearly the goal of the legislation. OTOH, this may just impose a layer of indirection and diversification, where GV investors shift their money into these REIT-like mutual funds rather than buying properties solo.
I only asked one lawyer so far. Itās probably evolving and not all lawyers know or have tried - all of this is still new to everyone. If I tried to do the split, Iād want the lawyer to be one that understands the fund investments well and has a SEF judgment in hand before committing to it so if you happen to have a name of a lawyer thatās done it Iām interested.
Yeah, and lawyers are going to say they know X or Y but you have no idea really.
We have to be somewhat forgiving in that the funds have not been around that long so how much experience can anyone have. But in the end this may also mean you are better off with one of the multi-discipline firms that have teams working in the finance and corporate law spheres, since they can consult internally.
I know which lawyer I should use. She is just somewhat more expensive than the rest and Iām balking at buying the more expensive salad dressing. Thatās probably stupid think, I know.
Thanks for the info, which is very helpful!
I am in line with your consideration. I suppose it should be more prudent if engaging a lawyer/advisory body for DD. I got a contact from Swiss wealth mgmt who provides analysis on funds investment from third and independent angle. Should update community if getting any further info.
Pls let me know your friendās feedback on lawyer. Thanks!
yes, SEFās judgment and criteria is uncelar re if 350K euros investment would be split out. Personally, I wonāt do this way.
Re fund option, I suppose itās worthwhile buying expensive dressing cos itās highly related the whole taste at the end 
Do you choose a private lawyer?
My lawyer has told me that I can invest in more than one fund as long as my total investment is Euros 350K, I am good for GV
We can assist with this issue by providing a legal opinion from our tax lawyer to mitigate the concerns. Feel free to PM me.
Hi, thanks for the info. Should take a look!
Hi, What about the NEST CAPITAL Funds, seems to be to one of the best companies, but i do not see that it has been included in the table?
Thank you, but I would prefer an opinion from the lawyer who is processing my visa and thus the one who has to defend it to SEF.
I had a nice chat with Artur and Pedro at Rock today. Kinda rambled on for a while. Theyāre very earnest; I think itās a little overbalanced to Artur but I also get that Pedroās English isnāt super great.
Itās another interesting and refreshing approach. To wit: Artur and Pedro already had a good little business in developing properties in Lisbon, funding it in a family-and-friends fashion, but they were doing it on their own using their own little business. They got introduced to Lince, who showed them that a VC fund was a far more efficient financial structure for doing the business, so they got into the VC business. GV was a natural extension for how to get some ācheapā sticky funding. But itās sort of still their own little business and they clearly intend to run it that way. So really, this is Bluecrow all over again - some folks already doing something, hey letās use a VC vehicle for tax efficiency and letās add on some investors, GV flow is a handy new target since Portuguese investors are in short supply. These projects are far more confidence-inspiring to me than the āletās swing for the raftersā big name projects.
The goal is to run maybe 10 development projects in the 1-3mm range, which is practically about the maximum number of projects Pedro can oversee at once (thereāll be a PM per project but Pedroās still doing the legwork of finding the properties and defining the vision / plan for each property).
Pro:
Con:
Note I did NOT dig into their numbers wrt the developments or returns or such. What I know about real estate can be written on two pages, so my looking at all the numbers Artur clearly had prepared would have been a total waste of time. Iād be glad for an opinion from someone who did know more about that.
I did finally learn that the whole āSPV structured as small-beans equity + massive loanā that Iāve been seeing is simply SOP for Portuguese tax efficiency - they bleed income out of the SPV into the fund by a loan written on preferential terms. I suggested that, given US PFIC look-through rules, this might not be the most tax efficient structure for US investors. (Since the US investor isnāt going to be paying Portuguese taxes, US IRS is going to look at it as if it were a US company, and US tax law really penalizes anything that looks like interest, and preferences dividends.) But a US investor canāt have it all their way.
Some of us here have skipped Nest because itās high street retail and we donāt believe in the thesis. Doesnāt mean weāve panned it like other funds where we dislike the terms or structure, just no point in digging if you donāt believe in the basic thesis. If you do then maybe itās worth looking into. Not sure why itās not in the list, seems like itās been at least briefly talked about.
yes, echo J Bā s comments. I recalled the community had discussed NEST before , at least I decided not to dig out more.
Hi ā¦I am currently comparing the fund to invest for our GV application ā¦ just wondering anyone heard about the Greytech II Fund ?
NEST Capital Fund is row 7 in the table.
Hi, What about the NEST CAPITAL Funds, seems to be to one of the best companies, but i do not see that it has been included in the table?
.
If itās a legal opinion that you can rely on (we lawyers love to put non-reliance clauses in our advice), you could seek recourse from them just as you could from your own lawyer. The only problem with legal opinions (and why I never recommend them to my clients) is that they are so full of qualifications and assumptions that they actually give very little comfort (i.e. you can seek recourse, but you probably wonāt bother trying and if you did try, you probably wouldnāt get any compensation). And as one of my partners used to say (who was also not a big fan of legal opinions) at the end of the day, itās a legal āopinionā ā not the same as a guarantee as to what the law says.
In short, any good lawyer worth his salt will do his best to tell you what the potential risks are and the likelihood of those risks materializing, but he is unlikely to tell you that any particular law or fact pattern will definitely result in any particular outcome. There are too many variables involved, particularly when dealing with governmental entities, who can change their opinion as quickly as the weather.
Iāve been checking out the Greytech II fund from Iberis Capital. So far I like it, more of a typical private equity fund in established businesses rather than real estate. Greytech I started in 2018 and showed good returns. Fairly low fees too, especially compared to their other fund.Iberis Capital Teaser.pdf (134.1 KB)