I am looking for advice on the SEF requirements for document translations and apostille.
So far I have found in their âfamily reunificationâ section as follows: Documents written in a foreign language must be accompanied by the respective translation that can be certified by any of the entities listed in Notaries Code, namely: Portuguese Notary; Portuguese Consulate in the country where the document was passed; Consulate of that country in Portugal.
What does this mean in practice? That I need to send ALL of my original documents for translation by a Portugal-based certified translator? And then have a Portugal-based notary to certify those translations?
As for the apostille, I could not find it mentioned anywhere by SEF, can someone please point me out where it may be described in their GV or family reunification requirements?
In any case, do I need to apostille the originals only, or apostille BOTH the originals AND the notarized translations? If the latter, then surely it can only be done in the country of the original documents, NOT in Portugal, thus contradicting the above SEF quote.
You apostille a copy of a document, which is to say that the respective governmental unit that issued the document (or to which itâs otherwise relevant) issues a document specific to the needs of the foreign government you are sending the document to that certifies that the copy is true and genuine. So a state apostilles your birth certificate because itâs issued by a county in the name of a state, but US Dept of State apostilles a FBI record since itâs a fedgov document. YMMV for different countries. As to any mention in SEF documents, think ânotaryâ since fundamentally an apostille is an international notarization.
You then translate it. Someone has to certify the translation of the apostilled document, which is a person that the Portuguese government trusts saying âhere is a translation, and yes this translation actually represents this other specific document accuratelyâ. You donât apostille the translation since the entity issuing the original document has no idea how to read Portuguese, and of course the translation is not the actual document, itâs another document that represents the original document.
Thanks Jeff, I appreciate your guidance re NOT apostilling the translations, it makes sense.
I just need to ensure the translations are certified by a Portuguese Notary.
Regarding apostille on a copy vs. the original - I agree with you in a sense that apostille CAN be placed on a certified copy of a document, however it would only confirm that the copy is true (legalized). It will NOT confirm that the original document is true (legalized).
Which means that all the GV related documents, such as birth cert, marriage cert, criminal record - will need to be apostilled as originals (in other words the apostille stamp will need to be placed on the ORIGINAL document).
Could you point me to a link of the document which mentions this ?
âDocuments written in a foreign language must be accompanied by the respective translation that can be certified by any of the entities listed in Notaries Code, namely: Portuguese Notary; Portuguese Consulate in the country where the document was passed; Consulate of that country in Portugal.â
You are correct in that background check, marriage and birth certificate needs to be apostilled by the issuing country. For example in India the apostilling authority lies with Ministry of External Affairs which is equivalent to Department of State. So what happens is a chain of authentication. First the local (town) authority issues the certificate(either digitally signed soft copy or ink signed). It gets authenticated first by the state that issued. Then it gets further authenticated at central/federal level and apostille is affixed on the original document.
Well, whatâs true and whatâs original in this day and age? You never get your original birth certificate, thatâs the piece of paper on file in the clerkâs office, you only ever get a certified copy thereof. Granted itâs chopped by the clerkâs office, but itâs still a copy theyâre running off their fancy xerox. The apostilleâd fingerprint record, you get an email from the FBI with a PDF in it, you send the PDF to Monument Visa to take to DeptState, they apostille that. So whatâs the true original of an electronic record?
In any case, the apostille IS saying that the document is true, in the sense of âI, US Dept Of State, state that this here piece of paper in your hands with this stuff on it looks just like the original on file at the government agencyâ. Since itâs a true copy of the original on file, it can through transitive property be legally counted on, whatever its state of âoriginalityâ.
(Is anyone at Dept Of State actually verifying against the actual records? Who knows. But theyâre saying they are, thatâll just have to be good enough.)
Sure, weâre saying the same thing just using slightly different terminology. What I call the âoriginalâ is whatever public document you receive first-hand from the issuing organization thatâs subject to legalisation. What I call a âcopyâ is literally a copy that either you take yourself from the âoriginalâ on a xerox machine (that would be âuncertified copyâ), or you ask a notary to take on his xerox machine and then sign and stamp (a âcertified copyâ or ânotarised copyâ). I donât call the internal âmaster originalâ record within the issuing organization anything because it is not an issued document, cannot be apostilled and therefore irrelevant for our practical purposes.
I donât think they do that at all, as itâs not what the apostille is for.
Quoting the 1961 Hague Apostille Convention itself: âThe only effect of an Apostille is to certify the authenticity of the signature, the capacity in which the person signing the document has acted, and the identity of the seal or stamp which the document bears (Art. 5). The Apostille does not authenticate the content of the underlying public document.â
Ok. I get that. And youâre right and I wasnât thinking straight. But really, isnât that all you really need to validate? Chain of evidence or whatever the right word is. The signature is the attestation that the document is true or agreed to. So A signs this document saying that A believes that B signed this document (or a copy of it that looks like this), B signed this document attesting that the contents of the document are true. You get to the end goal one way or the other.
Yes, I have no disagreement with you on anything you have just stated.
My initial âdisagreementâ was on your use of the term âcopyâ but weâve cleared that too.
Thanks!
Anyone have an idea how much translations and certifications in Portuguese cost? I am being charged EUR50 per page and I am not sure if this is too steep or the norm?
That actually feels somewhat expensive. But it just varies a lot. Iâve seen 30, 500, 100/page. My lawyer just did it in house and didnât charge me at all. I think someone like Nevada can chime in here with US based folks who can do it for reasonably cheap.
Iâve used âWe Translate On Timeâ and Languex. They both seem fine to me, with different but comparable service offerings and prices. Theyâre both much less expensive than what the OP is paying! My lawyer has also been very helpful about certifying documents and translations without nickle-and-diming me about it.
Thanks for sharing. Let me ask if your lawyer was able to certify (notarize) the translations from these suppliers? I understood the translators must belong to some âregisterâ of Portuguese translators that the Portuguese notary/lawyer can recognize and certify.
Were you ever to find out the answer to this question? I have been having all my translations done by Languex and I am now ready for my Biometrics appointment. The people doing my visa say that they cannot guarantee that the translation from Languex will be accepted. My question is if Languex translations will be acceptable by SEF.
I followed the SEF rules and did my translations with a PT-based translator who also had them notarized by a PT-based notary. These were accepted by SEF at the pre-approval stage, I am still waiting for the biometric invites to open up.
The Languex translations are NOT notarized by a PT-based notary so you are at risk of them not being accepted by SEF.
I guess you may try to apply as-is and then re-do all the translations after your biometric is done if SEF insists.