No one verified. You can verify if you want.
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I appreciate having this information. Anyone can discuss the content with their legal advisor.
Regards,
Wendy
Wendy
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Increasing years/time in-country has already grown beyond the germ of an idea to being incorporated in 3 different partiesā election programmes. I donāt suggest waiting until it becomes an unstoppable, self-fulfilling thing.
Perhaps itās too early to write to politicians (they just won yesterday and are busy jockeying for positions). But certainly if you have a Fund Manager you should let them know now that youāre concerned - and that new investors are also worried (they probably care more about new money, theyāve already got your money).
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@Margarida.Torres Would you please share your view regarding this expected changes in law? What is your opinion in this matter?
The GPT summary is interesting, but as Iāve said before GPTs tend to take what they ingest as fact.
For example this:
ā¦has largely turned out to be the usual empty promises from AIMA. Mid-2025 is almost here, and we 50,000 GVs have been told weāre still back of the queue. And itās possible AIMAās dialled-back their āall pending GVsā commitment to just a 30% reduction for 2025.
So the reality is messy, and double-checking is important 
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Not to get too āmetaā here but, I would be in favor of stopping the AI and GPT answers on the forum. Besides the accuracy questions raised above, theyāre extremely low-effortā¦ any one of us could just as easily ask our favorite AI these questions, and get a similar non-answer. IMO the real value of the forum is insight/thoughts from other GV holders and the lawyers, the AI summaries are just noise. At least thatās my two cents.
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Iāll second that.
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Do you know if this is actually written in those programmes? And what exactly, i.e. did all parties sync up on 5-to-10 years?
Itās not a loaded question, I just genuinely donāt know if this was truly written down and published, or it was rather something that āDN sabe queā¦ā
Regarding the fund manager, I have none, so can only possibly write to politicians.
Which brings me to a question - does anyone on this forum knows someone in the higher up circles personally? Or at least by proxy as a 2nd connection through someone? It would be good to have a more targeted and careful discussion rather than blast a salvo of letters to strangers.
As a follow up, I am not sure how exactly the MPs are elected in Portugal, but I suppose each of us would have at least one ālocal MPā simply based on our address listed at AT (with some of us genuinely living at those addresses).
How about we make a proactive effort and book a meeting with the said MP in the capacity of a concerned investor/business person?
Just a thought, but Iāll go ahead and explore to at least find out who my own local MP is nowadaysā¦
Obtaining residency in Portugal is governed by a specific law (Law No. 23/2007, of July 4) and is a process analyzed by AIMA.
Applications for Portuguese nationality are processed by another entity that is not AIMA and are governed by a different law, the nationality law (Law No. 37/81, of October 3). There is an article in the nationality law that states that after 5 years of legal residency in Portugal, among other requirements, it is possible to apply for Portuguese nationality and this is the link between residency and nationality, but we are talking about different laws. Therefore, if only the nationality law is changed, it will not affect nationality applications that have already been submitted and are pending analysis, and will only apply to future nationality applications. I do not consider it obvious that a residence application pending analysis will be protected in the event of a change in the nationality law. I believe it is fair and legally defensible that these are legitimate expectations of people who applied for residency for this purpose, but I have doubts that if the law were to be changed there would be any provision for protection in this regard. I believe it is defensible, but it may be necessary to resort to the courts and then it will be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
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Thank you for your insight, Margarida.
So, no, you have not verified the things youāre posting.
Itās one thing to speculate based on what weāve seen so far, itās another to seed the forum with potentially completely made up laws and rulings that you take absolutely no effort to verify before treating it as fact
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Would you say someone who already has a GV card is in any better position? E.g. if you already took the CIPLE exam and are just waiting the 5 year mark to apply, if the law is changed to require 5 years physically in Portugal just before you apply, then you are out of luck?
Fully agree. We need aso to restrict people from using Google and internet overall because there is so much misinformation there and it is so easy to find it. Unless a person goes to a library or an archive and scans a hardcopy, there is no place on this forum.
We also should not repost what mass media says, because in those articles and interviews there are so many promises AIMA and politicians gave that appeared to be not true.
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I agree nothing in law is ever obvious but, for what itās worth, Iāve received legal advice thatās more optimistic than that about our standing. My lawyers believe a transitional period is likely for people who already have their cards, especially because the Portuguese government actively promoted the idea that investors could expect citizenship after five years. The fact large financial transactions were involved adds even more legal weight to that expectation. They pointed to the 2023 changes to manifestaĆ§Ć£o de interesse, where the government introduced a transitional period after facing the prospect of multiple legal challenges over legitimate expectations. That allowed people who had already taken concrete steps (like obtaining a NIF or a job offer) to still apply under the old rules. They recognised the need to shield the state from claims by individuals who had already begun the process under the previous rules.
Iām eligible to apply for citizenship in 6 months, Iāve had significant money tied up in Portuguese businesses for 5 years, I have complied with all the residency rules, Iāve done my language test. If the nationality laws change right before Iām eligible to apply, I will be going to court to challenge it. Anyway, as much as itās fun to spitball on our prospects, we are all in a holding pattern until we see actual legislation.
I donāt know, Iāve seen some pretty ālow effortā comments from humans too 
I agree posting big AI blocks can change the tone and usefulness of the forum, but the reality is that many lawyers are already using AI to research questions like these (and thatās only going to get more common with every passing year). As long as itās accurate and relevant, thereās probably room for both human insight and some AI context.
From what other lawyers have said, it will likely take >1 year to pass any changes, so youāll likely be fine if you lodge your application in 2025.
People who started the GV process a little later than you, however, might be screwed.
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My point was that there are lawyers who believe anyone who already has an approved GV might be grandfathered into a transition period for any changes to nationality law.
AI can be useful, when verified
If you just regurgitate everything the AI says without even making a cursory attempt to verify things, youāre just offloading the verification of the information to the reader, which is bad
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Yes itās possible. If 99% of lawyers were sure we are guaranteed to be grandfathered, I would feel pretty good.
But if only 50% of lawyers think weāre likely to be grandfathered, I consider that to be 50% possibility of a guarantee (after all, the judge you are assigned to is just another lawyer, drawn from the distribution of lawyers, so 50% likely to agreeā¦)
Overall, I would definitely not apply for a GV right now with a hard to reverse investment (or even worse a donation). Open ended funds only!
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