Because I can see a future in which relationships between the countries of the world change and travel between the US and Europe becomes problematic, or travel as a US citizen becomes more problematic than it is. I donāt want to get locked out of Europe, because I love Europe. I donā want to not be able to travel just because the only passport I have is blue.
Is it super-likely? Maybe not. But I can, and the costs are not so high, so I do. Some of my investments are even doing reasonably well and covering the costs/fees so really itās just bother.
I have no illusions that Iāll ever give up my US passport or entirely leave the US behind. I am aware many people see the US going into a pit. It might also muddle through and be fine. I am also aware that I will never be āEuropeanā. I am too old to change enough to ever not be āone of those Americansā. But I can maybe be acceptable.
Yes, Jeff, not everything is compared one-for-one, but keep in mind that overall you are still much further ahead. I do not know what State you are using as your point of reference, but from Californiaās perspective:
Gas - agreed, it is about $8.00 here whereas it was close to $5.50 to $6.00 in San Diego last March/April. However, most cars here are far more fuel efficient (no, you do not need Chevy Silverado V8 Z71 here!), and so much of this difference will be negligible. Also, if you are living in Lisbon, you do not need to drive whereas in San Diego you MUST drive. My vehicle expenses are way down.
Electronic Appliances - slightly higher, but consider that in CA we pay additional 8.25% sales tax. The price you see there is not what you pay, whereas here the price you see is the final price. Just as in the U.S., there are frequent sales on these items.
Electricity - way cheaper than in CA! The only thing that was saving us in the U.S. were solar panels, but even then our San Diego Gas and Electric Company was manipulating the rates to squeeze ever more revenues from solar clients. Last March/April the electricity and gas were climbing into $500.00 to $600.00 per month!
Non basic/local food stuff - disagree! Almost everything costs here a fraction of cost than in CA! First, the quality here is phenomenal. Second, selection is far beyond what I ever saw anywhere in CA, even in Whole Foods and other overpriced boutique markets. Third and most important, the prices we were paying per pound were higher than here per kilo. Do the math!
You will have to learn to do with less or else on the same budget as in CA, you will perish from over-consumption!
Cars - agreed, if you are comparing like-for-like, mostly because of pricing a new car and due to higher taxes. However, low-mileage used cars are quite abundant and often can be found at a very good price! I wanted a four-wheel drive car, which is hard to find in Portugal, and so I bought it in Spain - saved some 5K to 6K ā¬ in the process.
And again, in CA in addition to 8.25% sales tax on either new or used cars, we also pay 2.2% of DMV registration fees on new cars. Things do add up there quickly as well.
And so, in the very real sense, once you establish yourself here (you bought your real estate, car, electronics, furniture, etc.), your normal life is substantially cheaper than CA. When you factor in annual property taxes and income taxes in CA, there is almost no comparison.
You are right - it is not the same thingā¦ It is way better!
Definitely depends where youāre from in the states.
Frankly there are maybe two or three cities with public transit as nice as Lisbonās that Iām aware of, and even that is a bit suspect. Not to mention easy access to beaches and lots of good food and bakeries.
For the lifestyle Iām looking for, Portugal is a great option and easily competes with the best the US has to offer. Admittedly, itās a lot easier when itās cheaper to live there and I donāt need a job in Portugal.
I really do feel for the people of Portugal and their crappy govāt though. I hope they get some much needed reforms, Iāll certainly vote for more housing, and whatever fixes the job market
Iām not rich. My yearly medical bills in the States are ~$30,000 in after tax dollars with a platinum PPO for insurance. My bills will get worse. Healthcare is why Iām leaving the U.S. (that and that alone).
Im glad the GV program is available to you. A lot of countries donāt take immigrants with major health issues. (Which makes sense, immigration in general shouldnt be a net burden on the receiving country.)
Yeah, this is actually super interesting to me. I had no idea New Zealand, Australia, and Canada blatantly discriminate on the basis of disability before I came to this forum (I never considered moving to those countries).
It seems to me there are so many potential levers/workarounds through immigration policy that would allow for disabled immigrants without imposing a net burden on the host. Many disabled immigrants will be net contributors (like me) who come from high skill, high demand professions and, in my somewhat more idiosyncratic case, when the time comes, will have one helluva an inheritance to tax. But even with all that, my application to immigrate to New Zealand would be a non-starter. Sucks to be them.
Do you know if any EU countries preclude immigrants on the basis of disability? Genuinely curiousā¦
Iām also actually not doing the Portugal GV anymore - got a work visa elsewhere which makes more sense given my risk tolerance and trust in the Portuguese. Currently scrolling through these forums to see if there are any pointers about how to deal with novobanco
I suppose that is the other driver I didnāt mention, healthcare. My wife is disabled as well. The way the US works, the only viable way to have GOOD health insurance is to have a job with an employer that has a good health insurance plan - if you donāt have an employer, youāre stuck with the ACA exchange policies, which generally just suck for value-for-dollar and just generally.
So if I want to quit my job and retire early, or even take whatever happy-job I want, our health insurance options become quickly limited. Itās not even the money per se, itās that unless you have a major carrier, you are stuck paying rack rate and/or continually negotiating with healthcare providers or simply pushed out or limited as to what providers you can access. Itās just a complete bother as well as expensive.
As it is, I donāt have to think about it. My health insurance just takes care of it, except for some oddball stuff that we truly canāt reasonably expect them to pay for really.
Yes, weāre spoiled, having had first-rate healthcare my entire life. Who wants to give it up?
Portuguese private healthcare systems start looking like a real bargain even at 12k/yr for an Allianz or Medis full-boat, and mostly available to anyone. Yeah having a disability is a disadvantage to getting healthcare, but at least too thereās a baseline, and even rack rate is ā¦ not unreasonable.
Frankly, thatās probably the one reason we donāt do Costa Rica. CR has a couple JCI-accredited hospitals, but is kinda short in the specialty we need. But we love the country otherwise and itās even cheaper and easier for remote-work.
(Really, the best option would be Germany. But, well.)
I understand what you are saying. The thing, I think, is that itās very hard to create laws that fit everyone and every situation, without allowing more discretion to a given immigration officer than one might want them to have. Also, itās hard to judge - will you be a net contributor? You can say you are, you might intend to be, but how do they know you mean it? Thatās the downsides of a rules-based ranking system.
Very broadly, as you say, itās understandable that a country doesnāt want people moving over and leeching off the public services. (I am amazed Portugal lets it happen.) But, the attempt to filter to stop it inevitably means that some people you might really have wanted get excluded.
That may be one thing slowing the US down on modernizing its healthcare system. Regardless of oneās feelings about it, a porous southern border makes it very difficult to offer Healthcare For All. Or maybe it is just a coincidence that every country with national healthcare has tight immigration policiesā¦
My advice for novobanco is to give a local phone number that can receive texts while you are outside PT. Otherwise, you will be stuck having their automated security system call you and speak the authentication code when you try to login.
It is too late for me tho so I treat it like language lessons.
Every western/developed country has extremely tight immigration controls, Iām not convinced thereās a causal relationship there.
If universal healthcare is worth having for the relatively economically unproductive natives in the USA, itās absolutely worth having for the relatively economically productive immigrants
Look at Australia and NZ, even skilled / high income workers need to meet certain health requirements. And in Oz I think you have to carry private insurance as a visa holder anyway! New immigrants to NZ dont even get free school for their kids if their income is at a certain level.
Seems like a lot of places want to know you will be contributing tax-wise before they entertain letting you move in. The more social safety nets you have (free healthcare, good welfare system, etc) the more important this becomes.
Iām from the US, and my wife and I are hoping to move (retire) to Portugal for the change of pace, the chance to discover (and immerse ourselves) in a new culture, and to be somewhat closer to the rest of Europe for further travel. Weāre also very much interested in gaining PT citizenship, though we are unlikely to give up our US citizenship.
This thread also reminds me that weāre hoping to escape some of the increasing racism, xenophobia, and general nastiness that has reappeared in the US over the last decade or so. Some would argue that it was always there, under the surface, and they might very well be right. But events of late have made the US more divided than I can remember in my lifetime, and I donāt see that resolving during the remainder of my lifetime. Iād rather not spend the rest of my life simply enduring the downward spiral.
Hi everyone,
Does anyone know an (main or dependent) applicant with a Turkmenistan passport taking the GV route? Iād appreciate to connect and ask a few questions about how to obtain docs and legalize in order to use in Portugal.
