Holder still subject to 90/180 rule for other EU countries?

Hello everyone,

I am a US citizen and want to spend more time in Europe to get around the 90/180 rule (when the EU will allow Americans back in :slight_smile: I started looking at a possibility of a Portuguese GV, but am not sure whether it gives me the right to spend time in other Schengen countries.

For example, if I have the Portuguese GV, can I spend 4 months in Spain or Germany? Or am I still a subject to 90/180 rule?

Any help is appreciated.

You wouldn’t be subject to the 90/180 rule, but to legally spend 4 months in Spain (without going out of the country) you’d have to register as a resident in Spain. And you couldn’t do that when you have the visa from Portugal.

Hi,

Thank you for replying to my message. If you don’t mind, can I ask you a few questions?

  1. If I am not a subject to 90/180 rule, can I travel in Europe for 6 months continuously, not staying in one place too long?

  2. If I stay in one place, how long can I? For example, can i rent an apartment in Paris for 3 months? What about 6 months if i go in and out of the country?

  3. Is there a place where i can read these regulations?

Thank you.

-val

You are subject to the 90/180 rule.

From the ‘Moving between EU Countries’ button at https://ec.europa.eu/immigration/general-information/already-eu_en :

"Going to another EU country during my long-term stay – more than 90 days

When you stay in an EU country for a long stay, usually for more than 90 days, you will generally be issued with a long-stay visa and/or a residence permit.

If your long-stay visa or residence permit has been issued by a Schengen area country, you can travel to another Schengen area country for 90 days per 180 day period. You must:

  • justify the purpose of your stay;
  • have sufficient financial resources for your stay and travel back;
  • not be considered a threat to public policy, public security or public health.

You can also pass through other Schengen area countries on the way to your host country.

To move from one EU country to another for more than 90 days, you will need a long-stay visa or a residence permit for that country. If you wish to work, study or join your family in the second country, you may have to fulfil more conditions."

Dan,

Thank you very much. Just to confirm your answer, if I have Portugal residence permit,

a. I cannot spend more than 90 days in any other Schengen country, but can spend 2 months in Spain and 2 months in France.
b. I cannot spend more than 90 days in all other Schengen countries except Portugal

I think the answer is (b), but I wanted to make sure.

Let me know, thanks again.

-val

You’re welcome. Thanks to you I searched my personal wiki for a definitive answer about A vs B. I found it, then modified the copy-and-paste response I used above.

It’s (b). It appears whomever wrote the FAQ on this didn’t first read the law. From page 18 at the link:

  1. OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT ALLOW ENTRY INTO AND/OR STAY IN THE TERRITORY OF THE MEMBER STATES AND THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY THE VISA CODE AND THE HANDBOOK

    – residence permits
    The procedures and conditions for issuing residence permits are covered by national
    legislation, although according to the principle of equivalence between short stay visas and residence permits, holders of a residence permit issued by a Member State and holders of a valid travel document may circulate for up to 90 days in any 180-day period within the territories of the Member States.

Thank you Dan

As a US passport holder (even without Golden Visa) you are exempt from the 90/180 Schengen rule in certain countries. For example:

US citizens can enter Denmark for up to 90 days every six months, regardless of whether they have stayed in other Schengen countries (except other Nordic countries) prior to entry into Denmark.

A bilateral agreement pre-dating the Schengen area may allow 90 days of stay in France regardless of days spent in other Schengen countries.

Ireland: visa not required for 3 months.

A bilateral agreement pre-dating the Schengen area allows an additional 90 days of stay in Latvia (to a total of 180) regardless of days spent in other Schengen countries.

Norway: 3 months within a 6-month period, regardless of previous time spent in other Schengen countries, but including time spent in other Nordic countries

A bilateral agreement pre-dating the Schengen area allows a stay in Poland regardless of days spent in other Schengen countries.

UK: visa not required for 6 months.

So if you keep those rules in mind and move between countries often enough, you can stay in Europe for a long time without violating the 90/180 rule.

For example you could spend 89 days in Germany, then 90 days in Denmark (allowed because Germany isn’t part of the Nordic passport union) then exit Schengen by flying from Denmark to Ireland, spend 3 months in Ireland, 3-6 months in the UK, then go back to the Schengen area again with your 180 day clock reset.

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I am a Japanese citizen, also looking for possibility of a Portuguese GV, but would like to long-stay in Belgium or France to learn French, my understanding is i need a separate Schengen Visa so as to stay more than 90 days in another country in the area .

I am curious, in general there is not boarder control within the Schengen area(although the pandemic changed the situation), if i fly in Lisbon and fly out from Paris, technically how can i prove myself i stayed in the Portugal for more than 14 days - a requirement to renew the GV?

Hi Rose,

Technically, there should not be border control, but in reality it does exist, especially in airports (they instituted it during the refugee crisis). if you decide to do this, you would probably be better off taking trains. You can also ask around in case the situation changes.

I am potentially interested in something similar, so I asked

-v

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One more thing. There are bilateral agreements between Japan and France/Belgium which allow you to stay additional 90 days. I think you have to go home afterwards. So in theory, you can stay 90 days in Belgium (Schengen) followed by 90 days in France.

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/japanese

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Hi Valr,

So i will travel via airports if i need a stamp, and take a train or bus in case want to avoid such hassle :grinning:

It’s a good news that i can stay for max 180 days in Belgium and France in one trip to the Europe, i will definitely take some time to go through the link you provided.

Thanks for your info and help!

Good luck!

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On 14 or more days make a purchase where you: 1) Use your NIF number, and 2) Ask for, and receive a fatura (receipt). If SEF wants to know how many days you were in country, they can check with Finanças.

Keep the faturas in case SEF asks for proof.