Wasn’t disagreeing with you… only clarifying for the other poster that there’s never been a “grey zone” w.r.t. PR eligibility.
I’m not far behind you; coming on 3.5 years and still no card. But does Portugal care? They’ve got our money and aren’t bothered about delivering their part of the bargain.
One only has to look at the huge money grab of scheduling all these ARI Biometrics appointments this year, only to collect €6k from people and then leave them hanging for another year or two (or more, like us).
If after 90 days of everything being submitted including biometrics you are auto approved, isn’t there a good case to say this is when the clock starts ticking for citizenship and PR?
I think once this law is passed, there is a chance to lobby the government to make special concessions for golden visa, but only if the investments dry up as a result. If investors keep applying for GV, then there is no incentive to make any adjustments. I believe there was a big surge of applications over the last 6 months because promoters were telling people that they need to hurry up and apply to benefit from the old law.
I also agree that we have a stronger leg to stand on by seeking “grandfathering” for PR rather than citizenship. It seems like the Nationality Law is an immigration reform tide in which we have been collateral, thus the stakes are too high for our tiny minority to have any chance to prevail without backlash. However in our case, the PR deal is more of a transaction, in that we invest, and within 5 yrs+90 days we get the PR card. Any deviation from that “contract” by either party is a breach, that should be remedied by the courts. Shouldn’t our community focus more on getting our lawyers’ guidance along that route to start establishing precedents?
Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding. I was under the impression that, with the anticipated changes to the law, an investor’s ability to get the permanent residency card isn’t threatened. We are still going to eventually get the card.
I went through biometrics recently and am waiting on the card and waiting for the rest of my family to get called for biometrics. Of course, it’s not ideal the way AIMA is dealing with this. But I’m not clear why we would need grandfathering for the permanent residency card. As I understand it, at some point we will be able to reside in Portugal with permanent residency, if we so choose.
Personally what I am most concerned with is the fact that we invested in real estate under the assumption that we would be eligible for citizenship in 5 years and now the government has moved the goalposts after we made the investment. So what I would hope for would be grandfathering the investors who already invested with the understanding that they would be eligible for citizenship in 5 years. If that hadn’t been the law at the time, we wouldn’t have invested.
Of course the other issue of the clock not starting until we receive our cards, rather than when the applications was filed, is very shady and disrespectful, given AIMA’s delays. But still I feel seeking grandfathering for the 5 year timeline is what I would want. I’m not concerned about not receiving permanent residency–unless I should be? Please let me know if there another thing I need to worry about today after I have my coffee. Thanks and apologies for the long-winded message.
The issue is different, we were induced to lock up significant capital on the basis of a defined residency-by-investment framework and a reasonably predictable timeline. AIMA’s own ARI FAQ says that https://aima.gov.pt/media/pages/documents/00be889bb5-1742413931/ingles_faqs-ari-pendency-recovery-plan.pdf (question 23) , after submitting the application in person, applicants should wait for the “legal decision period of 90 days” before the residence permit decision/card process should be resolved. So commercially, many people reasonably planned around something like five years plus the official processing period, not five years plus years of administrative limbo.
Yes, I understand. I think there are a number of different issues at play, all not favorable to us. The delay of getting the residence permit after locking our investments is one thing and unacceptable, though I don’t know what we can do about it other than pull out of the program. I was mainly confused about the idea of grandfathering the PR card (that hakim59 mentioned). As I said, my main impetus for investing in the first place was to receive citizenship after 5 years so that is where I feel grandfathering would make sense. Anyway, this is where we are now and I guess we have to wait until the law is promulgated and then figure out the next realistic steps.
When i had started this journey citizenship eligibility was 6 years (later they decreased it to 5 years). But PR was always 5 years. So they are not related i think.
We are not saying that the five-year requirement should not be respected. On the contrary, we fully agree with it. However, it should be counted as five years plus a reasonable administrative margin (for example, 90 days) from the date of the investment.
This is already the principle applied for permanent residency. Therefore, it is not acceptable that we are effectively required to maintain our investment for up to ten years, when the original agreement was clearly based on a five-year period.
As a result, investors are unfairly forced to bear the consequences of delays that are entirely outside their control. This creates a situation where we lose time, financial value, and future opportunities.
It is also important to consider the financial impact. The value of €350,000 invested four years ago is not the same today, and asking investors to wait an additional five years significantly increases the loss due to inflation and opportunity cost.
We should not remain silent while our rights and legitimate expectations are being undermined. A fair solution would be to respect the five-year requirement starting from the original investment date, without imposing excessive delays on investors..
Fair enough. What do you propose ? Who from the politicians is willing to talk in our names and fight for us? In my opinion legal cases who reach anywhere and no one will have the time to look at every case.
Have any of you guys seen this video. You can go to 7:20 minute in the video to see what she is talking about. The lawyer suggests that constitutional court will have to give us grandfathering for old residents but it makes no sense to me how this would happen. I’ll attach the video:
Yeah I’ve noticed but regardless, she still said the constitution wouldn’t allow not to have transitional period. Which to my knowledge seems like that’s what’s going to happen.
I’ve got 2 law firms contact me in the last week wanting to know if I would be interested in attempting to submit my nationality application under the current legal framework. (I’ve done 5 years)
I did not receive my card renewal yet and I’m far from been ready to get the language certificate.
I don’t remember exactly where I have read this, but I think this come with some risks.
Applying now may be risky is the application is rejected in 2-3 years for “whatever” reason.
Anyone can remind me the risks associated with applying just a few days before the new legislation?
I feel these firm laws always contact me when they have an opportunity to collect fees, and at this point, I don’t trust anyone in Portugal.
Oh yeah, this Friday 1st is Dia do Trabalhador in Portugal = Labour Day holiday here and much of Europe. Lots of places will be closed for the long weekend.
If you already have the 5 years, there’s really no reason not to apply now. You’ll need proof of registration for a PLA course or an A2 test, and you just need to make sure you have the certificate when they ask for it. Otherwise you will almost certainly be stuck on the 10 year timeline. I would do everything you can do get your documents together right away.
I am not sure we can count on the support of legislators, given how small our issue is in the big national picture. I believe our main remedy will be the courts. From my understanding of this thread, we would need to apply for PR card after a/having a residence card in hand and in good standing, and b/having reached the 5 years + 90 days “expected” timeline for PR eligibility. Then most likely than not AIMA will reject the application, which is then grounds for filing a legal appeal case for “breach”. If we are lucky and at least 3 of us get favorable ruling, it becomes a firm precedent granting automatic approval for all subsequent cases. This may appear as a rosy scenario for all of us GV applicants under the Euros 350k+ investment option, but ironically it would also blanket-solve this problem for AIMA also in a “face-saving” way. Anyway, we can hope…
